ACIM, GOVERNMENT, AND POLITICS Log Out | Topics |
| Search | Moderators |

On-Line Discussion Group based on A Course In Miracles » Member Chosen Discussions » ACIM, GOVERNMENT, AND POLITICS « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 10:57 am:   

Goodmorning,

J. Edgar Hoover....what a great opening for an ACIM focused discussion.

SUBPLOT's.....relationships, THE ego, secrecy, competition, SPECIAL, teaching/learning....every IDEA in ACIM IS wide open for discussion from the example of J. Edgar's bodily life, human story and it's affect on the effect he had in the time he walked this earth!

WHAT a great opportunity to examine how~~~~ SUBPLOT~~~ is a significant learning/teaching tool for ACIM student/teachers. I, personally,experience subplot, subgrouping...SUB....ie:underneath, hidden, secret, dark etc in all forms in my own life. VERY, VERY, VERY, seemingly insidious and SEPARATING reality for exciting, happy and unconditional relationships. SIGNS are all around us to SEE as tools for healing.

SUBPLOT.....my Step-Father, who appeared in my life as one of my most challenging relationships, served in the Navy on a SUBMARINE during WWII. Of note he, and my Mother, devoted their entire married life together engaged in the National Sub-Vet Organization. I heard my whole life about the ins/outs and LIFE of SUBMARINES. I learned from this to SEE the literal reality and also of the metaphors within the subplots of the stories. I personally experienced a relationship with this multifaceted human in/with/enmeshed and woven into the very fabric of daily life, family life, interpersonal life AND INTRA-personal existence.

Nothing happens by chance and THE chances for recognizing how to SEE, FIRST within ourself, THE "chances" of ACIM focused HAPPENINGS ARE unlimited when, WE all as ONE, remove the personal fearful-competitive barriers of SUBPLOTS, eSPECIALLY those unrecognized and used for personal gain or projected as personally useful.

SUBPLOTS, SUBCONSCiOUS, SUBSTITUTE, SUBVERT, SUBSTANTIATE, SUBMARINE, subject, sublime, submit, sublet, subterranean, submerse, subsist, subservient, subdue, subliminal, submerge...

Subterranean HOME Sick Blues.....Bob Dylan
Johny's in the basement
Mixing up the medicine
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in the trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he's got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off
Look out kid
It's somethin' you did
God knows when
But you're doin' it again
You better duck down the alley way
Lookin' for a new friend
The man in the coon-skip cap
In the big pen
Wants eleven dollar bills
You only got ten.

Maggie comes fleet foot
Face full of black soot
Talkin' that the heat put
Plants in the bed but
The phone's tapped anyway
Maggie says that many say
They must bust in early May
Orders from the DA
Look out kid
Don't matter what you did
Walk on your tip toes
Don't try, 'No Doz'
Better stay away from those
That carry around a fire hose
Keep a clean nose
Watch the plain clothes
You don't need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows.

Get sick, get well
Hang around an ink well
Ring bell, hard to tell
If anything is goin' to sell
Try hard, get barred
Get back, write Braille
Get jailed, jump bail Join the army, if you failed
Look out kid
You're gonna get hit
But losers, cheaters
Six-time users
Hang around the theaters
Girl by the whirlpool
Lookin' for a new fool
Don't follow leaders
Watch the parkin' meters.

Ah get born, keep warm
Short pants, romance, learn to dance
Get dressed, get blessed
Try to be a success
Please her, please him, buy gifts
Don't steal, don't lift
Twenty years of schoolin'
And they put you on the day shift
Look out kid
They keep it all hid
Better jump down a manhole
Light yourself a candle
Don't wear sandals
Try to avoid the scandals
Don't wanna be a bum
You better chew gum
The pump don't work
'Cause the vandals took the handles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J4O2-nsFBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vkqf547rk0&feature=related

HOW will we ALL together heal our first person SUBPLOT's for the healing of ALL MINDS?
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2011 - 08:11 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


EVERYONE: A few nights ago I saw the movie J. Edgar which is about J. Edgar Hoover the man who built and ran the Federal Bureau of Investigation (F.B.I.). J. Edgar Hoover ran the F.B.I. for more than 40 years.

Those interested in how government gets it's power will be very interested in this movie. It's a balanced view of J. Edgar Hoover, but certainly focuses on the abuse of power as well as the many things he did that could be considered positive. The F.B.I. had little power when it was formed but gradually, under Hoover, got more and more power. In the beginning F.B.I. agents could not carry weapons or even make arrests.

It was clear, to me, that it is fear that causes government to yield power that frequently gets turned against the very people who gave government the power it has. Government then plays on the fear to continually increase it's power. J. Edgar Hoover saw dangerous enemies everywhere. Everyone was a potential threat to the U.S.A. Especially those who might be able to limit the power that the F.B.I. had.

"... they know not whom they hate. They are indeed a sorry army, each one as likely to attack his brother or turn upon himself as to remember they thought they had a common cause -- Frantic and loud and strong the dark ones seem to be. Yet they know not their enemy, except they hate him. ... [An army] could be seen attacking anyone with anything. ... This is no army, but a madhouse. What seems to be a planned attack is bedlam." (OrEd.Tx.21.71.72)


The film is directed by Clint Eastwood who I consider to BE a miracle. He's currently 81 and he still makes a major motion picture about every year. All of his movies over the past decade have been thought provoking and exceedingly well made. This one is very ambitious as it is a period piece with a huge scope.

The film was written by Dustin Lance Black who won a Academy Award for best screenplay in 2008 for Milk. I'm sure he was chosen so as to sensitively handle the gay relationship subplot between Hoover and his constant, life long companion and fellow F.B.I. administrator, Clyde Tolson.

Leonardo DiCaprio (a 3 time Academy Award nominee) plays Hoover and undergoes a very believable age transformation from being Hoover in his early 20s to Hoover in his late 70s.

Those interested in government and how it gains its power will love this film.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2011 - 08:57 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


EVERYONE: I just watched a YouTube video of Marianne Williamson speaking at the Occupy Oakland movement recently. The video is an hour long.

The video contains a lot of information and a good historical background. This is obviously an issue near and dear to Marianne's heart.

Here's a link. I invite you all to watch.

http://youtu.be/QHW3gyH0u3c


I've seen Marianne speak many times over the decades (literally). However, I felt something very different about her energy at this presentation. She felt more optimistic than I'm used to hearing her. She seemed more "prepared" than I'm used to experiencing her -- less extemporaneous. I like that. She also felt more spiritual humble than I usually experience her. I certain level of spiritualized ego was gone. This energy translated into how she looked as well. She looked radiant -- quite beautiful.

Marianne is a very accomplished speaker and always interesting to listen to. I believe we all can be proud of her professionalism. Someday history will look back on her and say that this was one of the first and most popular spokes person's for ACIM and it will look good for our movement.

She went into some different directions with this talk. Towards the end she focused a lot of A Course In Miracles. I think everyone would find something to like about this talk and that it could spark a lot of conversation. In many ways it reflects things we are already discussing here.

We all don't have to agree with everything that she said. I don't agree with everything that she said. However it's the conversation that this talk could start that is the more important thing.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2011 - 08:30 am:   

Dear Friends,

BART: Thanks for the heads up! This was indeed a
bit sloppy. So here's the correction and clarification.

The acronym EMS stands for “European Stability
Mechanism” and the treaty for this has been signed
by 17 European ministers of finance on July 11th, 2011.
Before the end of this year the treaty is offered for ratification
in the respective parliaments of the 17 member countries
in the European Union (EU). The Headquarters of the EU
is in Brussels, Belgium.

Here is a short summary of what the EMS-treaty entails,
with English subtitles (~ 3:10 minutes).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxMOW94V6xQ

An English copy of the treaty can be viewed here:
http://consilium.europa.eu/media/1216793/esm%20treaty%20en.pdf

In Brotherhood and Hope,

maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 05:37 pm:   

Maz,

Thanks for your recent posts. I look forward to hearing more and to commenting on what you wrote.

I would like to mention one thing. When you refer to European governmental organizations by their acronyms, it is very unlikely that any of the Americans in the group will know what you are talking about. ESM for example. I'd like to ask that you either use the entire names instead of acronyms, or give us the entire name the first time that you use an acronym in any particular post.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 03:33 pm:   

Dear Maz,

Thanks...

This IS, for me, the most important focus we can have to face down and end SEPARATION, in ALL forms...

"See, in the arena of ideas and within a process of
finding consensus among formulations of immutable
laws or axioms, IMO it is much easier to understand
that certain ideas, as we are facing them some might
be very wrong, others very right, are somehow part
of a "competitive" ENVIRONMENT."

Here IS a happy potential for correction of all errors WHEN the participants see that ENVIRONMENT is the cueing word.... "The only important thing to know first and foremost in all endeavors
remains, again IMO, the question and the answer of .....

"What is this for?"

IF and WHEN two people are able to agree on that simple conversational process THEN and only THEN is NO separation!!
WHAT IS THIS FOR? That has to be one of the MOST OPEN of queries humans are capable of for level engagement!

Thanks Maz...
Sincerely,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 02:36 pm:   

Thank you Christine!

Enjoyed reading your sharing and this sprung out:

CHRISTINE:" Projections of competition is not expression of love."

...meaning, that I am prompted to briefly comment,
in the sense that I like this phrase and will wrap
my mind around it.

As a member of a rather large family I guess I know
what is meant by the term "competition". It has so
many levels, the most rudimentary one maybe
biologically (where it is healthy, say in the immune system)
and the most abstract one in philosophy.
When it comes down to discourse, and specifically
discourse of high-level metaphysics, the thing is
not bad at all.

See, in the arena of ideas and within a process of
finding consensus among formulations of immutable
laws or axioms, IMO it is much easier to understand
that certain ideas, as we are facing them some might
be very wrong, others very right, are somehow part
of a "competitive" environment. The only important
thing to know first and foremost in all endeavors
remains, again IMO, the question and the answer of
"What is this for?"

Refining thought processes can involve some healthy form
of competition, but its not the competing as a goal
in itself, it is the communication that brings forth
mutual understanding of competing ideas.

They exist. And if anyone doesn't like the straight
forward mentioning of them, for whatever reason,
they might benefit more from other venues of
comparative thought processes.

So, yes, in philosophy, competition is a good thing,
in healthy business affairs its a good thing, and in
science of the mind it definitely is a good thing too.
How else would we be able to learn by contrast,
as Jesus instructs us. By contrast we learn what to
seek and what to avoid.

So here's to the competition based on one unified
purpose and intention, -- PEACE.

Thank you and happy trails, sister.

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 01:28 pm:   

Dear Maz,

I am very personally touched to read of your life.

You wrote....???quote...

"According to
Professor Isensee, human rights are not generators of meaning, but are based on the freedom of self-determination of people. In the search for meaning and truth, in fact, everyone must commit themselves in the first person. Because freedom means responsibility."

From an ACIM guided perception this is, yet another simple, validation of FORGIVENESS is a FIRST PERSON commitment. I have recently been in a very personally relational dialogue with humans that appear to be committed to their own first person projection of competition. The power and significance of this, as one's first person commitment to projection, has been for me a real ACIM practice opportunity for seeking guidance. It has been furthered, in my search for a Miracle in communications that would appear as "freedom" for first person projection.

NOTHING happens by chance. I appreciate others who appear in my own world that allow me to examine for myself how I see what is actually visible, what is written in words for me to read, and what happens between humans communicating to and with each other for correction of separation as ACIM is guiding us. I AM a person that relates within and without from overall guidance to see what is seen, hear what is said, read what is written AND I also rely on my experiences, visions, metaphors and metaphysics as a Spirit having human experiences. This for me is a Happy Dream. It is not easy for others at times to agree to relate on all levels such as this at the same time. I SEEM to have come into this body with that as my SPECIAL FUNCTION. I am learning it with more clarity now than at any other time in my existence.

I am grateful to have a community who ALL appear to be on this same journey no matter that there is not always the ability to understand or verbally communicate the clarity. We seem to WANT to keep trying here. I have heard from several of the CMC Board members that they "WILL NOT" use this forum, for varying reasons, and some which have been stated are that it is "not helpful, they don't like what is happening, they think it is attacking, negative etc." It is rather confounding to me that this is the ONLY CMC open forum and THE Board members WILL NOT use it? What come to my MIND IS, what my young adult children would say.....WHAT'S UP WITH THAT????

I am blessed each and every day for the opportunity to practice seeing, being and experiencing the separation in order to forgive myself and choose then to project LOVE. The first person projection of competition is quite difficult for me, in this life, as a relational construct. EACH TIME someone shows up in my life asking me to NOT ask for correction of such a first person projection I do experience separation from my self.....it seems I am being asked to believe competition relates to

"human rights are not generators of meaning, but are based on the freedom of self-determination of people. In the search for meaning and truth, in fact, everyone must commit themselves in the first person. Because freedom means responsibility."

IS a positive projection of what ACIM teaches? I need to shift that around to feel safe in this dream. To trust that those who choose first person projections of competition will, at least, consider the possibility that those they project /relate with and to may want them to "search as ONE...for meaning and truth" with LOVE and guidance to shift, their own first-person, perceptions of COMPETITION for the good of the WHOLE.

The quote appears to be one of hopefulness, of one that has the HIGHER Christ vision that COMPETITON may NOT be helpful to project. Competition seems to me to act as a separator and barrier for knowing the freedom of self-determination means taking responsibility for projections relates to first-person freedoms. Of COURSE....it takes all of us working, practicing and projecting together to REALLY get to have Holy Instants of Heaven on this EARTH.

Maz, I thank you for this inspirational moment to practice...my positive ACIM guided path for NOW....I have had spoken, written and very intensely projected to me COMPETITION.

I am HAPPY to say, this IS what I WILL offer as my return projection to COMPETITION, as validation of knowing FREEDOM means RESPONSIBILITY. In this Spirit Guided ACIM example of responsibility I choose the Voice of God....endorsing a projection of competition from other humans to....LOVE. Poignantly and powerfully stated by yet another human...

"Human rights are not generators of meaning, but are based on the freedom of self-determination of people. In the search for meaning and truth, in fact, everyone must commit themselves in the first person. Because freedom means responsibility."

Projections of competition is not expression of love. ACIM gives each ONE an opportunity to receive the first-person projections, in this example competition, with the knowing that we have the God-given WILL to see it, hear it, feel it and read it. AND...when the projections of others appear to differ from a HAPPY DREAM...we can choose acceptance that their first-person projection may not be helpful.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE and PRACTICE once more. Shift my own first-person perception FIRST, then choose what I WILL project in the face of competition, love, separation, happiness, fear, community.....ALL things work for good.

Maz, again, I thank you for showing up with your real life story. As such I feel happier, in this moment, for having a forum to practice OUT LOUD....so to speak.
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 12:14 pm:   

PS: As indicated, the last two paragraphs of my post are quotes from a presentation on youtube, NOT my own words.

peace, maz
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 12:01 pm:   

Dear Bart,

Blessings, and thank you for your thoughts. As always, they provoke a good and intesne thinking process.

BART:" I would offer the idea that you and the others like you, the average citizens, ARE THE DECISIONMAKERS. You think that it's OK to be insufficiently educated in these matters because you have given up the responsibility of being the decisionmaker. This is a vicious circle."

I am addressing this point to set something straight. I was raised 10th grandchild to a very political man who worked alongside Germany's post war second democratic President, Mr. Heinrich Lübke, who was his direct boss, as minister of agriculture and later as the second head of state in the Federal Republic of Germany. We were raised as and by decisionmakers. Which doesn't mean all of our siblings went that route in an "official" way. Some followed up in the tradition of politicians, some as teachers, and some - the minority - chose the artistic lane. As one of the latter, my political influence is on the field of culture and arts, as modest as it may be. I try to bring the Course into everyday application and try to reach out for more miracle-minded brothers and sisters in an eclectic and ecumenical way.

However, the ESM was the center of attention for my involvement in this blog for the time being. I have scheduled a telephone interview with Professor Joseph Isensee for tomorrow. He currently is advisor to the German government, the Christian Democratic Union (CDU). The reason for my contacting him is to inquire about the ESM plans and to learn about his take on them. I'll keep you all posted.

He is also member of 'The Pontifical Gregorian University in collaboration with the Konrad Adenauer Foundation has created a series of lectures entitled "Reflections on the Christian Cultures of the World." A German political foundation of this kind is dedicated to the cardinal principles of freedom, justice and solidarity. Wilhelm Staudacher, Head of the Kondrad Adenauer Foundation in Rome: "The Konrad Adenauer Foundation supports the Gregorian in this series of conferences. Our foundation is linked with, and harks back to, Christian values. So for us it is important to have information about different cultural assumptions and above all to know what the Christian faith has produced." In the framework of these conferences a meeting was held on January 25 entitled "The Christian heritage in secular human rights" whose relator was Joseph Isensee, Professor Emeritus of Public Law and Philosophy. The Constitutional State and democracy are, according To Isensee, a product of Christianity although the Church misunderstood this until Vatican II. However, the Church has been critical in the defense of human rights and will continue to be their only remaining defender.

Prof. Joseph Isensee, Professor Emeritus of Public Law and Philosophy: "Without the Church we never had a formulation for human rights, which are essentially children of Christianity, because Christianity reawakens a sense of human dignity, the uniqueness of each person, the equality of all peoples, without discrimination on the basis of religious belief, sex or social position. And the concept of man as in the image of God is a religious thought that has produced, throughout history, effects on relations between persons and between citizens and the state. The evolution of human rights has been a long historical process, sometimes even at odds with the Church, but human rights as we know them today are a product of the Church." According to Professor Isensee, human rights are not generators of meaning, but are based on the freedom of self-determination of people. In the search for meaning and truth, in fact, everyone must commit themselves in the first person. Because freedom means responsibility. This requires a critical look at the market of possibilities.'

I look forward to speak to Joseph tomorrow on such an important development.

Happy trails,

maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 10:55 pm:   

Maz and other friends,

Maz thanks for your notes about the EU. I still don't claim to understand the EU much, but the idea that arises in my mind is that there is a difference in the power and independence of the bureaucrats. In the USA, although appointed (i.e., unelected) bureaucrats have a lot of power, they are subordinate to elected executives who select them, direct them, and can fire them at any moment. Furthermore, they are theoretically limited to administering the laws that are passed by elected representatives. It sounds as though the unelected bureaucrats in the EU government have much more power. If that's correct, then to a large extent what Europeans did by creating this form of government was to discard freedom.

You showed a table demonstrating a decline in the percentage of the population voting in Holland from a high of 58.1% in 1979 to the mid-thirties in the 1990s and 2000s. I would propose that this is a natural result of the socialistic form of government that has come to dominate Europe. Voting is a form of taking personal responsibility. The essential message of socialism is "no-one has any personal responsibility", or something to that effect. I'm sure if I took time to work on it I could improve on that. The point that I'm making is that the IDEA OF SOCIALISM is opposite to the IDEA OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. People who promote a socialistic view of government will not come straight out and explicitly say "we oppose the idea and the practice of personal responsibility", but the programs that they implement teach it implicitly. If a government, and by extension a society as a whole, embraces a certain idea, and shapes society based on those ideas, it is inevitable that more and more people will come to adopt that idea, even if it is not explicitly spelled out. As all of the continent of Europe has moved farther and farther away from the idea of personal responsibility, and as more and more of the older generation who remember living with personal responsibility pass away and are replace by a newer generation that has never experienced true personal responsibility, it is inevitable that fewer and fewer will vote, because voting is an exercise of personal responsibility, and as ACIM tells us, "what you do comes from what you think".

Finally, you wrote "I am insufficiently educated in those matters … my prayer … goes to affirming that God's Word will permeate the hearts and minds of all decisionmakers". I would offer the idea that you and the others like you, the average citizens, ARE THE DECISIONMAKERS. You think that it's OK to be insufficiently educated in these matters because you have given up the responsibility of being the decisionmaker. This is a vicious circle.

As you start to understand more about government, you will realize that it's really quite simple. The problem is that a vast majority of what government does is attack, which means that our governments should be doing radically less than what they are trying to do. We don't realize it because we're in a zombie state of hypnosis. Look up "normalcy bias" on the web. It seems like we have complicated problems that governments must solve and that only experts can understand. The fact is that governments are causing the great majority of our problems because they are doing things that they should never be doing in the first place.

I keep having this image in my mind of people in Germany and Japan, in say 1944 when the war was going against them, saying to themselves, "what are we doing wrong, why isn't this war working the way we thought it would". In my image they have this idea that the rings of disaster closing upon their countries are due to technical problems that can be worked out by experts. What they didn't realize was that it was really a moral problem. The problem was that their fundamental policy was to go all over the world and kill and enslave innocent strangers. Because their fundamental policy was morally wrong – because it consisted of attack – it was never going to work no matter how much technical expertise they threw at it. Europe and the USA are in this situation at this very moment. Our fundamental policies – the basic essence of much of what we are trying to use government for – is morally wrong because it consists of attack. Because it is morally wrong it's never going to work no matter how much money and expertise we try to throw at it. We can chose of our own free will to stop (in the USA at least, might be too late for Europe), just as Germany and Japan could have chosen to stop. If we don't make that choice then it will implode because a benevolent divine power will ensure that it comes to an end, just as it brought the Third Reich and the Japanese Empire to an end.

Once again was trying not to post because I really don't have time in my schedule and won't for a couple of weeks, so any responses will probably go unanswered.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 06:40 am:   

Dear Bart,

Thank you for that explanation of an elementary difference. I think it is correct to say that, although there so-called European elections in a 5 year cycle, the voters' influence is limited on the seats for their national parties, not the officeholders.

I have done a little, careful research into it and must conclude that, as a German citizen with limited voting rights here in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, this society is not so very fond of a European constitution. The Dutch people voted against a European constitution and are generally unhappy with the introduction of the Euro.

I also think the Dutch economy is closely and symbiotically related to the German economy. Their greatest economic strength, I believe, originated with the exploration of gas fields and Europe's 2nd biggest harbour in Rotterdam after WWII.

For European elections the statistics show a lessening interest through the years which is reflected here:

year | Percentage of voters (Holland)
_______________________________
1979 58,1%
1984 50,1%
1989 47,5%
1994 35,7%
1999 29,9%
2004 39,3%
2009 36,8%
____________________________

What amazed me about the ESM treaty is that it has been signed by 17 ministers of finance and needs to be ratified by the respective parlaments.
However, if this is to happen, each individual European parlament/government will have a minister of finance on board who is immune. As governer of the European ESM one is not responsible towards his or her own democratically chosen parlament and decision-making institution.

As I am insufficiently educated in those matters and while the priority lies on sharing Jesus' Course with those for whom it is meant, a great part of my prayer and meditation moments goes to affirming that God's Word will permeate the hearts and minds of all decisionmakers. May everyone fulfill their respective function and task in accepting the Atonement on Earth.

I love what the Manual for Teachers contains in this regard:

11. HOW IS PEACE POSSIBLE IN THIS WORLD? 1 This is a question everyone must ask. Certainly peace seems to be impossible. Yet the Word of God promises other things that seem impossible, as well as this. His Word has promised peace. It has also promised that there is no death, that resurrection must occur, and that rebirth is man’s inheritance. The world you see cannot be the world God loves, and yet His Word assures us that He loves the world. God’s Word has promised us that peace is possible here, and what He promises can hardly be impossible. [...] 4. Now is the question different. It is no longer, "Can peace be possible in this world?" but instead, "Is it not impossible that peace be absent here?"

With much gratitude and Hope,

maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 12:56 am:   

Maz,

With regards to yours of Wednesday, November 16, 2011 at 12:45 pm and 01:17 pm.

You write about some of the current events in Europe:
"The so-called ESM-treaty which is in the making is described as a "coup d'état" in 17 European countries in this article. What does this mean?
and
"For the interested researcher, here is the PDF of said treaty. There are petitions organized against it, and as far as I can see their efficiency will either prove or disprove the existence of democracy in Europe. ... As far as I can compute this, the following implications are inherent in this plan: Souvereign, immune, all powerful, superseding national governments, untouchable and not responsible to any higher institution."

I don't know a lot about the EU as an institution. I know more about European economics and finance than I do about European governments. However, I seem to recall having read that although the individual national governments of member countries of the EU may be democratic, the EU government itself is not. My impression is that the EU government officeholders are not directly subject to election by the citizens. To provide a contrast in order to clarify my point, in the USA both the executive and the representatives in the national government, and the executive and representatives in the state governments, have to stand for election. So at both levels officials can only obtain and retain office by being appointed to such office by the citizens. In other words we have democracy at both levels. If what I read about the EU government is true, then as more and more power is moved from the democratic national governments to the non-democratic EU government, you have less democracy.

Since you are there, why don't you tell us Yanks how it is. Does the Netherlands have elections in which you vote for officeholders at the EU government?

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 11:42 pm:   

Well, I thought I was not going to post again this evening...but I read the following article and thought it would be nice to share it with others here....Interesting!!!!

http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/16/news/economy/tax_millionaires/index.htm?hpt=hp_t 2

WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- A group of two dozen millionaires stormed Capitol Hill on Wednesday, demanding lawmakers raise their taxes.

"We want to pay more taxes," said California millionaire Doug Edwards, a former marketing director for Google (GOOG, Fortune 500). "If you're fortunate, and you make more than a million dollars a year, you ought to pay more taxes."

The millionaires want Congress to allow the tax cuts passed during the George W. Bush administration to expire. Some want higher taxes generally.

They planned to push lawmakers to reject any deal that the so-called super committee delivers that doesn't raise taxes on millionaires. The 12-lawmaker panel has until next Wednesday to agree on $1.2 trillion in savings over the next 10 years or risk automatic spending cuts.

"If the super committee bill doesn't raise our taxes, we will ask our fellow citizens to consider killing the bill," said Eric Schoenberg of Franklin Lakes, N.J., an adjunct professor of marketing at Columbia Business School.

They planned to take their message to members of the super committee, Tea Party Republicans including Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas and Rep. Tom Price of Georgia, and even anti-tax champion Grover Norquist.

The group was formed a year ago to push for expiration of the Bush tax cuts, and includes several current and former Google employees. Some of the better-known millionaires in the group include economist Nouriel Roubini, and a few celebrities, such as "The Sopranos" star Edie Falco and filmmaker Abigail Disney, who didn't make the trip to Washington.

Five different members declined to say what their annual income is, only acknowledging that they could be called millionaires.

Massachusetts millionaire Farhad Ebrahimi, a 33-year-old philanthropist who inherited his money from his software entrepreneur father, said he also supports the so-called "Buffett rule" that would require millionaires to pay a higher percentage of their income in federal taxes than those who make less than a million a year. The rule is named for the measure's chief supporter, Berkshire Hathaway (BRKA, Fortune 500) chairman Warren Buffett.

But he said the first thing on the group's bucket list is convincing Congress to allow Bush tax cuts to expire for the wealthy.

"What we're all here today representing is to request the Bush tax cuts be allowed to expire -- that's simply the bare minimum," said Ebrahimi, who has also participated in protests in the Occupy Boston movement.
0:00 / 8:38 Buffett: Tax my $62.9 M more!

California venture capitalist Garrett Gruener, founder of Ask.com, told left-leaning House members on the Progressive Caucus said he doesn't buy the argument that hiking the tax rates for the wealthy and forcing them to pay more in taxes would stymie business growth.

"Not once have any of my personal investment decisions been a function of marginal tax rates," Gruener said. "We just don't think about it."

To top of page First Published: November 16, 2011: 3:53 PM ET
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 01:17 pm:   

PS: For the interested researcher,
here is the PDF of said treaty. There
are petitions organized against it,
and as far as I can see their efficiency
will either prove or disprove the existence
of democracy in Europe.

http://consilium.europa.eu/media/1216793/esm%20treaty%20en.pdf

As far as I can compute this, the following
implications are inherent in this plan:

Souvereign, immune, all powerful, superseding
national governments, untouchable and not responsible
to any higher institution.

I pray that the Holy Spirit gives His meaning to
this.

peace, maz
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 12:45 pm:   

Dear Friends,

The so-called ESM-treaty which is in the making
is described as a "coup d'état" in 17 European countries in this article. What does this mean?

Please Read the article here:
http://www.courtfool.info/en_ESM_a_coup_d_etat_in_17_countries.htm

Peace, maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 12:57 pm:   

Bart,

You wrote:"However since you are truly looking for answers, I would recommend that you re-read the posts that I have made so far on the government and politics thread just in order to get a deeper understanding of what I have written so far. Obviously its best if you read them in chronological order."

I will read your posts chronologically as recommended. If we are discussing Government and Politics there must be something for me to learn and expand from it.

The last sentence in your posts reads, "If anyone wants to respond you will do me a great favor if you wait until at least next week, and hopefully even later."

Thank you for being busy, it gives me time to read your previous posts on Government and Politics, and also to gather more information on these topics through other sources. And to study the Presidential Candidates a bit better...

What do you mean by this? "On the one hand I find the singular manner in which you phrased your
question a little disturbing?" (Take your time to answer)

Thank you for taking your time to reply to my previous question.

Sincerely,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 12:06 am:   

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

Maria,

In yours of Friday, November 11, 2011 - 04:26 pm you quoted my note to Charles, "I have found that I can try to identify problems and pair them up with solutions and still experience joy and forgiveness at the same time", and then followed up with your question to me "What is the solution to the problem we appear to have with our government? If you have posted the solution before please disregard my question."

I will point out that my note to Charles spoke of plural problems and solutions, and your question to me implied that we agree on the idea, or have been discussing the idea, that there is a singular problem with a singular solution. You might have the distinction of being the first human being who has ever set forth the proposition that, on the level of form and practical application, there is only one problem related to government and therefore one particular solution that solves "the" problem of government. President Obama certainly did not speak this way in his inaugural address that you posted earlier.

ACIM does say that on the level of mind we made one mistake that has one solution. But even on the level of mind ACIM says that one problem gave rise to many resulting problems, and on that level of mind ACIM provides many different solutions to address those many different problems. On the level of time, space, and matter – the level of government problems and solutions, the problems are many and the solutions must take many forms.

On the one hand I find the singular manner in which you phrased your question a little disturbing, but on the other hand I want to thank you because you asked me this same question here on October 18. I sent you a response in an email but I did not post it here. I was going to post it but then Marianne Williamson and OWS came along and we all got distracted down different paths. I hope to say more in response to your question, but for now I'll just post what I sent to you by email on 10/18/2011:

"Also, to answer your question, I have not posted much with regards to solutions. I have posted about some of the major causes, which are debt, transfer payments, government retirement programs, minimum wage laws, criminalization of hiring, and government advantage in education. Another problem is simply electing people who are clearly profoundly unsuited to hold office. I have mentioned all of these things as ways in which we attack each other, resulting in situations such as our current problems. I have not gone into much detail on any of them yet. Part of the solution has to be ending all of these actions, or almost all of them.

The solutions actually involve a wide range of specific policies that need to be ended and a handful of specific policies that need to be implemented. They also involve the way that we use government in general.

The answers are not simple and quick. It will take time. It took me many years to get to the point of understanding that I am at now. I can boil it down, but even boiling it down will require many posts over a period of many weeks.

However since you are truly looking for answers, I would recommend that you re-read the posts that I have made so far on the government and politics thread just in order to get a deeper understanding of what I have written so far. Obviously its best if you read them in chronological order."


To that I want to add that we all need to develop a MUCH GREATER sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY with regards to educating ourselves on these topics, a MUCH GREATER sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY with regards to our own individual lives, and a MUCH GREATER sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY with regards to using our votes to require our governments to stop attacking. To a large extent we have our current problems with government because of three attitudes: 1) "I'm not responsible for understanding how we relate together in society because other people will take care of it for me. I'll vote based on my subjective private emotions instead of on knowledge and understanding that can be objectively shared and considered among my brothers and sisters. This is convenient because it requires no time and effort, so I won't miss the next episode of American Idol or the next NFL game. Also since it's totally private it carries no basis for verification, whereas voting based on knowledge and understanding that can be shared with others is subject to scrutiny by logic and reason, which means I might have to endure the discomfort of changing if it turns out that I have been wrong." 2) "I'm not responsible for the results that occur in my life because other people, through the instrument of government, are responsible for taking care of me, and I'm perfectly happy to use the police power of government to drain their freedoms away from them so that I can abdicate personal responsibility for me." 3) "I'm not responsible for working to end attack against my brothers and sisters because other people don't matter much to me. I'm not my brothers' keeper. OPDM (Other People Don't Matter). OIM (Only I Matter)" These three attitudes have led us to a point where Western societies live, all day every day, by conducting attack upon the innocent, the harmless, and the helpless, using the instrument of government to do so. The closest analogy that I can think of to the way that we're living today is the slave culture that existed until 1865. We're in such a profound zombie state of cultural hypnosis and ego hypnosis that most of us aren't even aware that we're living this way. So part of the solution is simply starting to wake up on an individual level, and part of the way to do that is to study the teachings of Jesus, including ACIM, and develop a personal relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. More on all of this later.

I'm really trying hard to not post for a while so I can concentrate on other things. If you would all help me out on this I would really appreciate it. When people address me directly, as Charles and Maria have done recently, I find it hard to not respond promptly. I really need to not post for a few days so I can concentrate on other things. If anyone wants to respond you will do me a great favor if you wait until at least next week, and hopefully even later.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 04:26 pm:   

Bart,

In your response to Charles, you wrote: "I feel great, Charles, thanks largely to this community I'm sure. I have found that I can try to identify problems and pair them up with solutions and still experience joy and forgiveness at the same time."

What is the solution to the problem we appear to have with our government? If you have posted the solution before please disregard my question.

Respectfully,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 08:46 am:   

BART: Loved your recent post. Thanks so much.

In relation to your blog, I noticed a potential contribution in form of an article someone shared. I will repost it, FWIW.

Peace, maz



This is an interesting perspective and probably, in large measure, correct. It is part of a series of teachings on Jesus given at St. Alban's Presbyterian Church in Palmerston North, New Zealand.ans Presbyterian Church, Palmerston North, New Zealand

The Politics of Jesus

(Luke 6:27-36)

Jesus is often thought of as being irrelevant to politics. In fact, he presents us with a surprisingly radical political option. This message, the third in a series on ‘The Challenge of Jesus’, was given at an evening service in St. Albans Presbyterian Church, Palmerston North, New Zealand, on 2 March 1997.

A False Picture of Jesus

‘Politics’ is defined by the Concise Oxford Dictionary as ‘the art and science of government.’ More broadly, ‘politics’ is involvement in the leadership or government of the public life, civic affairs, social policy and public institutions of a society or nation.

Many people, Christians and non-Christians alike, have a false image of Jesus. Taking their cue from Jesus’ remark, ‘My kingdom is not of this world’ (John 18:36), they have wrongly assumed that he was only interested in ‘spiritual’ matters, not in such ‘worldly’ activities as politics or economics. Holding that Jesus was non-political or a-political in outlook, they have assumed that his teaching is of no relevance to us today in the ‘practical’ task of how we should conduct our lives in society or give leadership in public life.

Holding this false view of a Jesus uninterested in politics, people then derive their political views from other, secular, sources. Political activists of Left-wing persuasion turn to Marxism for their political analysis and strategies. Political conservatives of the Right seek to preserve or justify the traditions and status quo of society. Neither side realises that there is a specifically Christian approach to politics, one espoused by Jesus himself.

Jesus’ Political Manifesto

What we could call Jesus’ ‘Political Manifesto’ is contained in Luke 6:27-38. Here he teaches a radical response to such real life political issues as:

• How should we treat enemies or those who don’t agree with us?

• How should we respond to unprovoked violence?

• What should be our attitude to property and possessions?

• What principles should guide our economic life and the distribution of wealth?

• What should we do when our property is forcibly requisitioned or taken from us?

In answer to these intensely practical questions, Jesus gives the following counsel:

• We are to love our enemies, do good to those who hate us or oppose our views, and speak well of and pray for those who abuse us.

• We are to offer the other cheek to those who strike us; that is, we are to overcome violence with love, in this way retaining the initiative by not letting the violent person gain control over us or provoke us into reactive violence.

• We are to give to those who request our assistance, and not ask for our goods back if they are taken from us, thus displaying our confidence in God’s justice and provision.

• We are to have a generous attitude towards our property and possessions, lending freely - which the early Church consistently interpreted as meaning without interest - and not expecting anything back in return.

The leading element in this political manifesto of Jesus is the ‘surprise factor’ - the concept of acting differently than what is expected of us, of going further than what is commonly viewed as normal or natural in human relations. It is natural and normal to care for our own. It is unexpected and surprising to love those who are beyond our natural circle of affection, or to do good to those who are disagreeable or hostile toward us.

The other element in Jesus’ social teaching is the note of reliance on God: a God who is just, fair, generous, and unstinting in his philanthropy towards us. ‘Love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.’ (Luke 6:35-36). This is not an ethic of retaliation (‘You hit me, and I’ll hit you’), or even an ethic of reciprocity (‘You scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours’); it is an ethic of responsiveness, an ethic of response to God’s grace, an ethic of mercy (‘God loves the undeserving, so we love the undeserving too’)....

Rest of the article can be found at:http://www.stalbans.org.nz/teachings/rob_yule/jesus/jesus3-6th.htm
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 01:59 am:   

Good Morning Everyone (it's morning for me),

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/inaugural-address/

Inaugural Address

By President Barack Hussein Obama

My fellow citizens: I stand here today humbled by the task before us, grateful for the trust you've bestowed, mindful of the sacrifices borne by our ancestors.

I thank President Bush for his service to our nation -- (applause) -- as well as the generosity and cooperation he has shown throughout this transition.

Forty-four Americans have now taken the presidential oath. The words have been spoken during rising tides of prosperity and the still waters of peace. Yet, every so often, the oath is taken amidst gathering clouds and raging storms. At these moments, America has carried on not simply because of the skill or vision of those in high office, but because we, the people, have remained faithful to the ideals of our forebears and true to our founding documents.

So it has been; so it must be with this generation of Americans.

That we are in the midst of crisis is now well understood. Our nation is at war against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred. Our economy is badly weakened, a consequence of greed and irresponsibility on the part of some, but also our collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age. Homes have been lost, jobs shed, businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly, our schools fail too many -- and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.

These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics. Less measurable, but no less profound, is a sapping of confidence across our land; a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, that the next generation must lower its sights.

Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this America: They will be met. (Applause.)

On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord. On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn-out dogmas that for far too long have strangled our politics. We remain a young nation. But in the words of Scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our enduring spirit; to choose our better history; to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea passed on from generation to generation: the God-given promise that all are equal, all are free, and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness. (Applause.)

In reaffirming the greatness of our nation we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. Our journey has never been one of short-cuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted, for those that prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame. Rather, it has been the risk-takers, the doers, the makers of things -- some celebrated, but more often men and women obscure in their labor -- who have carried us up the long rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.

For us, they packed up their few worldly possessions and traveled across oceans in search of a new life. For us, they toiled in sweatshops, and settled the West, endured the lash of the whip, and plowed the hard earth. For us, they fought and died in places like Concord and Gettysburg, Normandy and Khe Sahn.

Time and again these men and women struggled and sacrificed and worked till their hands were raw so that we might live a better life. They saw America as bigger than the sum of our individual ambitions, greater than all the differences of birth or wealth or faction.

This is the journey we continue today. We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week, or last month, or last year. Our capacity remains undiminished. But our time of standing pat, of protecting narrow interests and putting off unpleasant decisions -- that time has surely passed. Starting today, we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and begin again the work of remaking America. (Applause.)

For everywhere we look, there is work to be done. The state of our economy calls for action, bold and swift. And we will act, not only to create new jobs, but to lay a new foundation for growth. We will build the roads and bridges, the electric grids and digital lines that feed our commerce and bind us together. We'll restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. All this we will do.

Now, there are some who question the scale of our ambitions, who suggest that our system cannot tolerate too many big plans. Their memories are short, for they have forgotten what this country has already done, what free men and women can achieve when imagination is joined to common purpose, and necessity to courage. What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them, that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply.

The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works -- whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified. Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end. And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account, to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day, because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government.

Nor is the question before us whether the market is a force for good or ill. Its power to generate wealth and expand freedom is unmatched. But this crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin out of control. The nation cannot prosper long when it favors only the prosperous. The success of our economy has always depended not just on the size of our gross domestic product, but on the reach of our prosperity, on the ability to extend opportunity to every willing heart -- not out of charity, but because it is the surest route to our common good. (Applause.)

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers -- (applause) -- our Founding Fathers, faced with perils that we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man -- a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience sake. (Applause.)

And so, to all the other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born, know that America is a friend of each nation, and every man, woman and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity. And we are ready to lead once more. (Applause.)

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with the sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

We are the keepers of this legacy. Guided by these principles once more we can meet those new threats that demand even greater effort, even greater cooperation and understanding between nations. We will begin to responsibly leave Iraq to its people and forge a hard-earned peace in Afghanistan. With old friends and former foes, we'll work tirelessly to lessen the nuclear threat, and roll back the specter of a warming planet.

We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense. And for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken -- you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you. (Applause.)

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace.

To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West, know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy. (Applause.)

To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history, but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist. (Applause.)

To the people of poor nations, we pledge to work alongside you to make your farms flourish and let clean waters flow; to nourish starved bodies and feed hungry minds. And to those nations like ours that enjoy relative plenty, we say we can no longer afford indifference to the suffering outside our borders, nor can we consume the world's resources without regard to effect. For the world has changed, and we must change with it.

As we consider the role that unfolds before us, we remember with humble gratitude those brave Americans who at this very hour patrol far-off deserts and distant mountains. They have something to tell us, just as the fallen heroes who lie in Arlington whisper through the ages.

We honor them not only because they are the guardians of our liberty, but because they embody the spirit of service -- a willingness to find meaning in something greater than themselves.

And yet at this moment, a moment that will define a generation, it is precisely this spirit that must inhabit us all. For as much as government can do, and must do, it is ultimately the faith and determination of the American people upon which this nation relies. It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job which sees us through our darkest hours. It is the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke, but also a parent's willingness to nurture a child that finally decides our fate.

Our challenges may be new. The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values upon which our success depends -- honesty and hard work, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism -- these things are old. These things are true. They have been the quiet force of progress throughout our history.

What is demanded, then, is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility -- a recognition on the part of every American that we have duties to ourselves, our nation and the world; duties that we do not grudgingly accept, but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character than giving our all to a difficult task.

This is the price and the promise of citizenship. This is the source of our confidence -- the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny. This is the meaning of our liberty and our creed, why men and women and children of every race and every faith can join in celebration across this magnificent mall; and why a man whose father less than 60 years ago might not have been served in a local restaurant can now stand before you to take a most sacred oath. (Applause.)

So let us mark this day with remembrance of who we are and how far we have traveled. In the year of America's birth, in the coldest of months, a small band of patriots huddled by dying campfires on the shores of an icy river. The capital was abandoned. The enemy was advancing. The snow was stained with blood. At the moment when the outcome of our revolution was most in doubt, the father of our nation ordered these words to be read to the people:

"Let it be told to the future world...that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive... that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet [it]."

America: In the face of our common dangers, in this winter of our hardship, let us remember these timeless words. With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless the United States of America. (Applause.)

Peacefully,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 12:30 am:   

IN RESPONSE TO CHARLES

Charles noted that he had no interest in further dialog, but for those who do have interest, I would like to post a few notes.

In his post of Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:, Charles wrote:
"Though I disagree, I daily pray for Bart and Ron Paul, etc. and try to see the light in them."
My gratitude to Charles. Charles is setting a wonderful example that we can all follow.

In his post of Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:, Charles also wrote:
"Bart clearly hates Obama … "
I don't recall having posted any emotions that I feel towards Obama specifically, but if I did, I hope someone will point it out to me. I have stated that I think he is unsuited to hold office, that he expressed the desire to play the role of dictator in a specific speech, and that certain of his actions reveal a desire on his part to use government maliciously. Writing from memory there and those are almost certainly not my exact words. Making those observations and stating those opinions is quite different from holding or expressing an emotion. As long as we can't discern that kind of distinction, we will continue to use government to make the type of traumas that our species has been making since the dawn of history, and probably since before that. The purpose of all of my posts in this thread had been to facilitate our getting out of attack, and I have reiterated that purpose repeatedly from the start. Getting out of attack, and helping others to get out of attack, can only be motivated by love. As we learn to stop using our votes to attack, all of us will benefit, including Barack Obama and his friends and family. So if there is a reasonable way to see my posts in this thread as expressing an emotion other than love to all of us, including Barack Obama, I'm open to hearing it.

In his post of Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:, Charles also wrote:
"Bart clearly hates … any government …"
I'm pretty sure that I have repeatedly stated the importance of proper use of government. I'm also pretty sure that I have not expressed any emotion towards government; once again, if I have, I hope someone will point it out to me. Government is simply a tool and is not an appropriate object of emotional response. It is the people who direct the tool (the voters) and wield the tool (the officeholders) who bear the responsibility for the actions of government, and towards whom all emotional responses should be directed.

In his post of Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:, Charles also wrote:
"Bart clearly hates …any regulation by government of the financial markets."
Well, this is not factually true, but I'm glad that Charles brought it up because it gives me a chance to reiterate a very important point.

Quoting from my post of Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 12:57 am:
"Then I read Investor's Business Daily from Thursday September 15, 2011, and saw the headline "Europe's Banks Face Mounting Worries". This reminded me that another thing that I believe government must do is to effectively regulate the banking system. This is certainly not as obvious to the average reader as the concept of protecting children. In my almost 30 years studying finance and my almost 23 years working in finance, one thing that I've learned is that, unless they are properly regulated by the government, the banks will destroy the financial system and the economy about once every 40 to 80 years, causing profound hardship to untold millions of people. The current situation of Europe's banks, and the fact that the USA had to rescue the banking system at the cost of trillions of dollars of taxpayer debt, show that current governments on both sides of the Atlantic have been failing for quite some time with regards to effectively regulating the banks.
Then I came across this quote from Confucius: 'If you try to do too much, you will not achieve anything.'
As I've been thinking about how the ego employs government as a device to attack everyone in general, one of the things that I've realized is that every time government takes on a function that it should not do in the first place, the representatives, presidents, governors, and other officials have their attention further divided and therefore further distracted from focusing on the things that government really should do. This might sound obvious, but as we go on I will try to make the case that government is failing almost completely on certain very important tasks that it should do. Regulating the banking system is perhaps one of the best examples. Once we see the magnitude of the harm that comes from these failures, then we realize how vital it is that our government officials not be distracted by tasks that they never should be involved with in the first place.


Quoting from my post of Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 04:49 pm:
"By the way, I will express my opinion that after some point in the late 1990s or early 2000s no sane banker would have bought any debt from any of the European governments that are currently having difficulties. I first read back in the 1980s that large banks have a magnetic attraction to bad debt, and since reading that I have seen it in action many times. So, yes, I am saying that most of the decision-makers at large banks are literally insane in every sense of the word, and they act insanely. This should be quite obvious, but the more who point out that the emperor has not clothes, the better.
Of course in some past cases governments have saved banks by forcing taxpayers to cover the banks' losses, but that's not a good solution.
I post this simply to illustrate two of the most important points that we most understand if we are going to stop attacking each other through government. First, that government is one of the primary ways that we attack each other. In this case governments throughout Europe have been the tool used by the voting majority to attack everyone by taking out too much debt. Second, that the banking industry is unique in it's ability to harm society, that it will wreck society once every forty to eighty years if it is not properly regulated by government, and that maintaining proper regulation of the banking sector is an essential role of government. So in this case we can learn that not only is proper regulation of the banking sector essential, but the failure to perform this function by Europe's governments is another case of governments being at the very center of the problems that we experience in life."


Quoting from my post of Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 04:49 pm:
"In Europe, to support the creation of a currency backed by nothing (not even a political union), banking regulations were put into effect that allowed commercial banks to hold all forms of European sovereign debt without any reserves. As a result, credit spreads between places like Greece and Germany converged, as was required for the success of the euro. But as all investors should have known and are about to find out, Greece isn't Germany. The Greeks have an entirely different culture in regards to working, debts, and taxes."

In his post of Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:, Charles also wrote:
"So where is the joy, the forgiveness?"
I feel great, Charles, thanks largely to this community I'm sure. I have found that I can try to identify problems and pair them up with solutions and still experience joy and forgiveness at the same time. In fact my experience has been that doing the work of healing the world goes hand in hand with joy and forgiveness. Thanks so much for asking. How are you?

In his post of Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:, Charles also wrote:
"Can Bart see Obama as his savior? …. So Bart can you see the Christ in Obama? Can you see the Christ in those people and things you dislike/fear?"
As I said before, I don't recall having expressed any emotions about Obama, but this is an excellent reminder. What candidates for office do is to give us a choice. As I wrote in an early post in this thread, maybe my first, voting is essentially a choice about what we chose to impose on our fellow citizens, backed up by the force of police. So political issues are really more about how we relate to our fellow citizens than how we relate to the candidates. We grow and heal by making choices. If we don't have at least two divergent perspectives, then we aren't presented with a choice that can facilitate growth and healing. So having people that we disagree with is undoubtedly a part of our classroom, and in fact a useful part. The workbook tells us that all things are for our own best interests. Might be about lesson 25. That means that even though I disagree with some of what Obama does and says, his role in society is still for my best interests. As the song says, "it takes every kind of people". But Charles is striking close to a good point, and all of us would do well to remember it. We have a tendency to direct negative perceptions towards candidates, officeholders, and voters who disagree with us. As ACIM students we must learn to identify problems and solutions, and make choices, without directing negative perceptions towards those who disagree with us. It's great to have this reminder. Thanks again, Charles.

In his post of Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:, Charles also wrote:
"Unfortunately I see Bart as a spiritual bully, using the words of ACIM to engender fear, not love in the group."
I'm sorry Charles sees me and my posts that way but I appreciate his frankness. I see Charles as God's child and my brother.

Love,

Bart



1 "… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

2 "Is it not true you do not recognize some of the forms attack can take? … Attack in any form is equally destructive. … He may … justify his savagery with smiles as he attacks. … any form, however lovely and charitable it may seem to be …
OrEd.Tx.23.41-42

3 "I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

4 "All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

5 "To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

6 "This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

7 "[Satan] did not care if everyone gave lip service to the teachings of Jesus, just so long as no one tried to live them."
The Starseed Transmission, page 67

8 "Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

9 "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 06:33 pm:   

Christine wrote:

ACIM "HOW is wasted time perceived by one's ego mind?
WHAT is waste of time as Miracle Workers?

Hi Christine. You put this partly in quotation marks, but it is not ACIM quotes.

If I were to address these questions, the first thing to do would be to define the terms. Is there a thing like an "ego mind"? If so, why are two levels combined in such a term? As ego is a tiny small part of the mind, and mind is a creation of God, it seems unlikely.

What a waste of time is for a miracle worker (if that is what the question asks) I suggest to consult Jesus on this question directly. I know what it is for me, but, then again, there is an individualized curriculum where someone's waste of time can be another's time saving.

To find out about the connection between "time" and "waste(d)", I suggest we enter "time+waste" into the advanced search function of the website from http://www.jcim.net/acim_us/Acim.php

Then, all the passages in the OrEd. will show up in which both words occur together in a sentence or paragraph. I am sure no question will be unanswered.

Great tool!

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 05:52 pm:   

AHHHH, Yes Maz

"ACIM "Time can waste, as well as be wasted."

ACIM "HOW is wasted time perceived by one's ego mind?
WHAT is waste of time as Miracle Workers?
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 03:51 pm:   

CHRISTINE: Waste? Seems like a call for practicing the lessons of introspection as ACIM offers."

ACIM "Time can waste, as well as be wasted."


namazte
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 09:50 am:   

Goodmorning,


Waste?????

How? What? Where?

Waste? Seems like a call for practicing the lessons of introspection as ACIM offers.
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 05:00 am:   

Charles: "B. clearly hates Obama, ..."

That should teach me how it looks to be non-judgmental. Excuse my devilish tendency for sarcasm (I'm working on ridding myself of that nasty habit) but honestly, this statement says more about how *you* see you brother than anything else.

IOW its definitely a perception I would not share. Meta-commenting on behavior, roles and functions in the world and their potential or factual consequences are a necessity, especially when one is articulate and able enough to present alternative views and ideas based on Course principles.

Likewise, and as an example, it would IMO obvioulsy be rampant level confusion to conclude that Jesus somehow must hate the nazis just because he identifies their "appalling errors" and says that he "shed many tears" about them; or that he must hate the inquisitors in history because they punished alternative thinkers allegedly "for their own good."

To me, it is counterproductive to judge someone for judging. There is IMO a huge, if not a total difference between wrong- and rightminded j/Judgment. If guided discernment wasn't necessary and we all were ego-less already, we would hardly need the Course or any miracles. :-)

Thank you everyone, and to quote Maria, happy practice!

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 04:31 am:   

Rich: "Where is the Love?"

IMO its easy to understand learning and sharing about the Course as an act of Love. AFAICS (As far as I can see) the expression of Love in this world translates as healing. In Heaven it translates as co-creating.

CHARLES: "Unfortunately I see Bart as a spiritual bully, using the words of ACIM to engender fear, not love in the group. [...] So Bart can you see the Christ in Obama?"

IMO there are gradations among us humans regarding or potential and/or manifested commitment to have 'personal Christ-Guidance'. And there is always the temptation to apply double standards. For example,"I see brother X as a fear mongering bully abusing ACIM because brother X is not seeing Christ in brother Z."
IOW (in other words) I interpret a brother's state of mind as unloving and then hold brother X to a higher standard than I am willing to apply and demonstrate myself.

Time for me to remember the laws of p/Projection, right-minded or wrong-minded, and that analyzing the motives of a brother can be hazardous when the laws of p/Projection are obscure or unclear to me.

BART: Thanks for clearing up my indulging in the above by analyzing your comments, assigning to them a motive which was up-side down. Its also wonderful that you help me to lower the language barrier threshold. Certain colloquial expressions are subtle. Now I see the humor in it! I enjoyed to learn about the semantic root of "squat", too.

CHRISTINE: Thank you for your messages. Please don't take it personal that I haven't been able to address the parts intended for me. My day is sometimes a bit overwhelming lately, but I want to let you know that I appreciate your sharings. Thank you.

MARIA: Please keep the music coming and thank you for sharing so much beauty at the right moments.

Peace, everyone,
and happy trails,

maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rich LaSpesa (Rich)
Username: Rich

Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 01:34 am:   

Now...where is the love????

God is the only goal I have today.

The way to God is through forgiveness here. There is no other way.

God is our goal; forgiveness is the means by which our minds return to him at last.

And so, our Father, would we come to You in Your appointed way. We have no goal except to hear Your Voice and find the way Your sacred Word has Pointed out to us.

Lesson 256.....(inc)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 12:46 am:   

Charles,

Thanks so much. I was thinking about responding, but since you wrote "I don’t expect or need a response, and I have no interest in a further dialog on this issue" I won't waste my time.

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Charles Mawson (Charles)
Username: Charles

Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 11:35 pm:   

I normally do not share. I don’t do social media such as Facebook, Twitter or YouTube. I tend to be quiet and think and meditate, sort of a Buddhist ACIM student. I find the general tone of sharing for some time now does not give me peace. I see so much judgment and projection of fear. I thought we were supposed to forgive our brothers and see the Christ in them as they are our saviors.

Bart clearly hates Obama, any government, and any regulation by government of the financial markets. So where is the joy, the forgiveness? Can Bart see Obama as his savior? Though I disagree, I daily pray for Bart and Ron Paul, etc. and try to see the light in them. Unfortunately I see Bart as a spiritual bully, using the words of ACIM to engender fear, not love in the group. I don’t expect or need a response, and I have no interest in a further dialog on this issue.

So Bart can you see the Christ in Obama? Can you see the Christ in those people and things you dislike/fear?

November 7 - ACIM Workbook Lesson 311
I judge all things as I would have them be.

Judgment was made to be a weapon used against the truth. It separates what it is being used against, and sets it off as if it were a thing
apart. And then it makes of it what you would have it be. It judges what it cannot understand, because it cannot see totality and therefore judges falsely. Let us not use it today, but make a gift of it to Him Who has a different use for it. He will relieve us of the agony of all the judgments we have made against ourselves, and
re-establish peace of mind by giving us God's Judgment of His Son.

November 8 - ACIM Workbook Lesson 312
I see all things as I would have them be.

Perception follows judgment. Having judged, we therefore see what we would look upon. For sight can merely serve to offer us what we would
have. It is impossible to overlook what we would see, and fail to see what we have chosen to behold. How surely, therefore, must the real
world come to greet the holy sight of anyone who takes the Holy Spirit's purpose as his goal for seeing. And he cannot fail to look
upon what Christ would have him see, and share Christ's Love for what he looks upon.

Nameste
Charles

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 04:43 pm:   

Thanks much.

Tony that is the one that I was thinking of. I think it perfectly sums up the idea I'm trying to present. We make the effort when we realize that we are worthy of making the effort, which is the same as saying because we love each other. I so love that the context is about "engaging with God and His creations", that it is a "habit", that it is "easily made", and that I make the effort not only because I believe that I am worthy, but because I believe that my brothers are worthy of my making the effort for their benefit.

Maz thanks for your efforts. Your quotes were very uplifting.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 04:24 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


BART: I think this might be the quotation you are thinking of.

"The habit of engaging with God and His creations is easily made if you actively refuse to let your minds slip away. The problem is not one of concentration; it is the belief that no one, including yourself, is worth consistent effort." (OrEd.Tx.4.63)


It doesn't contain the words "worthy" or "unworthy" but it's the same idea.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 03:43 pm:   

Brother,

"(un)worthy of it" as a string appears 4 times. No idea which one applies. These are from the ur-typescript.

2455. You do not see how great the devastation wrought by your faithlessness. For faithlessness is an attack, which SEEMS to be justified by its RESULTS. For, by withholding faith, you see what IS unworthy of it, and cannot look beyond the barrier to what is joined with you.

2373. Humility will never ask that you remain content with littleness. But it DOES require that you be NOT content with less than greatness which comes not of you. Your difficulty with the holy instant arises from your fixed conviction that you are not worthy of it. And what is this but the determination to be as you would MAKE yourself? God did not create His dwelling-place unworthy of Him. And if you believe He cannot enter where He wills to be, you must be INTERFERING with His Will. You do not need the strength of willingness to come from YOU, but only from HIS Will.

2112. You have so little faith in yourself, because you are unwilling to accept the fact that perfect love is IN you. And so you seek WITHOUT for what you CANNOT find without. I offer you MY perfect faith in you, IN PLACE of all YOUR doubts. But forget not that my faith MUST be as perfect in ALL your brothers as it is in you, or it would be a limited gift to YOU. In the holy instant, we SHARE our faith in God's Son, because we recognize, together, that he is wholly worthy OF it, and, in our appreciation of his worth, we CANNOT doubt his holiness. And so we love him.

2080. But what you do not realize, each time you choose, is that your choice is your evaluation OF YOURSELF. Choose littleness, and you will NOT have peace, for you will have judged yourself UNWORTHY of it. And whatever you offer as a substitute, is much too poor a gift to satisfy you. It is essential that you accept the fact, and accept it gladly, that there is NO form of littleness that can EVER content you. You are free to try as many as you wish, but all you will be doing is to delay your home-coming. For you will be content ONLY in magnitude, which IS your home.


Such a gift to be reviewing this.

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 03:12 pm:   

"IT CANNOT BE THAT IT IS HARD TO DO"

Friends,

My overall point in this thread is that ACIM asks us to get out of attack, that the vast majority of us are using our votes as a means of attack, and that we need to learn more about the connections between government and society in order to vote in such a manner that we are promoting healing instead of attack.

In Western societies government is used as a tool for attack primarily through its involvement, or lack thereof, with economics and finance. This much should be emerging as obvious to most of us by now.

Several people have made comments that tend towards the idea that understanding economics, finance, government, and the relationships between these aspects of our civilization is difficult or is beyond their current abilities. We have also seen the idea that we can participate in a harmless and helpful manner in politics based on how policies, candidates, parties, etc. FEEL to us. I strongly disagree with both of these perspectives. I want to offer the observation that the vast majority of us have been voting based on these perspectives and the result of that behavior has been the problems that we currently have. Since we know from ACIM that ego-directed behavior leads to problems and right mind directed behavior leads to healing, we can identify those perspectives as ego perspectives.

I want to offer my personal experience that understanding these things, to the extent necessary in order to get out of attack, is NOT difficult. It only SEEMS difficult because the ego has arranged things to make it seem complex. We have set up our educational systems, our news distribution systems, and our personal methods of receiving information, in ways that makes it SEEM like only professional experts can understand these topics. Our egos have done this on purpose in order to preserve this method of attack. This is typical ego behavior; the ego always tries to surround what it is doing with a cloud of confusion and obscurity.

I also want to offer the idea that it is NOT POSSIBLE to vote in a harmless and helpful manner based on emotions, and that we can ONLY vote in a harmless and helpful manner based on knowledge, logic, reason, and analysis. Once again we can observe that ACIM tells us that the ego avoids knowledge, analysis, and rational thought processes, and the right mind adheres to them. Once you discard knowledge, analysis, logic, and reason, then the only remaining basis for behavior is emotion. This is why resorting to emotion is the basis for voting in the ego's approach. The ego wants to vote because it uses voting as a means of attack. Unless you are willing to overtly endorse attack, and in today's society most of us are not, voting to attack can NOT be accomplished by voting based on knowledge, reason, logic, and analysis and therefore can ONLY be accomplished by voting based on emotions.

NOTHING COULD BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH THAN THE IDEA THAT "LEARNING HOW TO GET OUT OF ATTACK WITH REGARDS TO GOVERNMENT, POLITICS, ECONOMICS, AND FINANCE IS DIFFICULT". As I continue with these posts I hope to show how simple it is. As an expansion of that idea, I will offer the thought that for the ego it is hard, in fact it is impossible. However, for the right mind, it is child's play. This should remind us of Tony's statement several weeks ago that the process starts with recognizing that we are the Christ. What I am trying to add to Tony's idea is that the process does start there, but after that start the next step involves gaining actual knowledge. And the reason why we go to the trouble to do this is because we love each other enough to make the effort. I would be very grateful if someone would find and post the passage where ACIM tells us that the reason we don't make sufficient effort is not because the effort is too difficult, but because we don't think that we are worthy of it.

Also I will add that the idea that getting out of attack is beyond the abilities of the average person is strictly opposite to what ACIM teaches us. The following is from OE.Tx.25.4:
"It cannot be that it is hard to do the task that Christ appointed you to do ..."

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 02:21 pm:   

Brother Maz,

Hey man, I was trying to make you laugh! It was a play on the concept that when you have an upset stomach due to eating the wrong thing, after you throw up you feel better!

I agree with Tony about not deleting posts because someone doesn't like it. I agree with you that there are valuable lessons to learn here. More later on that topic -- after my workday, or perhaps tomorrow. I could post at least ten hours on what we have encountered from you, Rich, Tony, Ben Stein, and Paul Krugman in the last 36 hours. I'm trying to pace myself so that I can keep the rest of my life in order.

Note on English idioms: "don't know squat" rather than "don't know squad".

The following is from http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/10/messages/948.html

where did the phrase "squat" come from? as in "don't know squat?"

From, "You don't know diddly-squat (or doodly-squat)."

From "Why You Say It" By Webb Garrison (Rutledge Hill Press, Nashville, Tenn., 1992): "Diddly-squat. Strictly American in origin ... carnival workers who traveled from town to town working one county fair after another developed their own private language. They had to do so in order to attract potential gamblers who would pay for a chance at a gimcrack prize. 'Diddle-e-squat' seems to have entered the carnival talk to name money - often a nickel or a dime, since that was the going rate for a game of chance. Frequently used to hide talk about a small amount of money, it was an easy and natural transition for the carnival term to indicate very little of anything."

Much love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 02:00 pm:   

TONY:"It seems that the only reason you want this
removed is because Bart found it objectionable."

Not really. When Bart finds something objectionable, he will surely tell me so we can explore when, why and where our thinking runs out of sync. Which is good.

But when my contributions are truly hurtful to anyone, including myself, I wish to have the opportunity for correction. This seems reasonable.

I respect your role as host very much, Tony. You do a magnificent job. If you refuse to delete my post (which wasn't intended to show up on the public board initially, anyway) I suppose I am presented with an opportunity for further dialogue and removal of blocks to clarity.

As stated before, a feeling of powerlessness comes over me when I indulge in political discussions. But, to be perfectly honest, I don't know squad. I take this episode as a sign telling me to look at old traumata and deeper layers of the unforgiving mind surfacing for healing.

thanks so much, dear fam.

namazte
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 01:33 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


MAZ: I do not like to remove a post unless it is blatantly abusive, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate. Then I remove it immediately. This rarely happens. It seems that the only reason you want this removed is because Bart found it objectionable. There's nothing wrong with any of your posts from yesterday. Bart is an equal member of the OLDG as are you. One member should not have the power through his mere disagreement to cause another member to remove a post. It sets a bad precedent.

It is also not good for Bart. If Bart feels that his opinion can cause people to remove their posts he may censor his opinions which we don't want. Saying he "threw up" was casual overstated humor. It made a point. He should be able to do that. You yourself have posted about how we shouldn't have to be so careful about what we say. Also, if your posts were removed no one will know what Bart was referring to and many other subsequent posts to yours will not make sense. If I were to remove your post soon many other members would want me to remove their posts when others on the OLDG disagree or express negative opinions about something that was written. It's not an energy I want on the OLDG.

You once asked a member here if he/she paused for a moment and thought before he/she clicked the "Post this Message" button. That's a good direction for all of us. There have been many times I myself wished I hadn't clicked the "Post this Message" button but I have never removed one of my posts because of it.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 12:32 pm:   

Dear Maz,

You are very welcome my brother!!! ;)

Peace,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 12:20 pm:   

MARIA: "Maz, welcome to the club, I misspell words all the time...It is just what I do...lol!

Thanks, Maria.

@BART: Sorry that you had to puke. If that is what the sharing brought forth, it makes sense to me to ask Tony to remove that post. Which I did.

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 12:00 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


BART & EVERYONE: This is not an exact transcript of the Ben Stein interview but it is the article that appeared under the interview. It does sum up the major points as well as give a little explanation of some terms Ben Stein used.

As long-time viewers know, Breakout (the show the Ben Stein interview was from) has the power to make esteemed guests the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. Thus far we've bestowed the honor, only to Jim Rogers (who says "close it") and Peter Schiff (who says "%^$%&*"). It took us a while but we finally found someone who would implement a plan other than immediately putting themselves out of work. That someone is Ben Stein, author of the new book "What Would Ben Stein Do?"

Stein didn't propose closing the Fed but he did pronounce it largely powerless to help ease our economic pain. The U.S. is in "a classic Keynesian liquidity trap," he says. "No matter how much money we make, it goes into the liquidity trap and there's not a damn thing we can do about it."

A liquidity trap is defined as a situation in which an economy suffers not from a lack of funds but rather a lack of investment opportunity and/or fears about things out of investors' control. Because of these fears, entities prefer liquidity (cash) over putting the money to work. By this thinking, dumping more money into the system is largely pointless as the cash won't circulate through the economy as intended.

We got here as a function of the financial crisis of 2008, a situation "so severe it was almost life ending." Stein says the financial system was saved only by TARP and other measures. "To think we are at 91% employment with the (DJ Industrial Average) fluctuating between 11,000 and 12,000 when it was 6,000; that's a miracle."

"Be patient," Stein concludes, essentially ending his Fed Chairmanship. "Little by little we will, as they say, schlep through." And while we do so, he'd keep rates as low as they are for as long as possible.

One man's miracle is another man's national tragedy. Stein thinks we have two obvious solutions for taking a bite out of unemployment. "We subsidize unemployment by paying too much money to stay unemployed," he says. Stein takes a Herman Cain-esque stance when he says many of the American unemployed simply don't want to work; at least not at the jobs available. Without illegal immigrants the agrarian economy in particular would screech to a halt, not to mention our fast food industry. "Go into a big city McDonald's (MCD) or Burger King, almost all of the (workers) will be foreigners."

Beyond cutting benefits, Stein wants to raise government revenues by giving those making over $2 million a year a "big shot of additional taxes," hitting those making over $1 million with a medium hike, and leaving everyone else alone. Although he hate our current entitlement programs, Stein still wants the proceeds of this soaking of the wealthy to go directly to those who need it most.

"How many Bentleys do you need? Shouldn't some of that money be going to the military? Shouldn't some of that go to poor people?" Stein questions. "We've got a real problem in this country with very poor people who are not being adequately taken care of; I think the rich already have enough wealth."

We want to know what you think. How many Bentleys do the rich need? Will more stimulus help this economy? Can a man be an avowed Republican yet still want to hike taxes on the rich? Let us know what you think."


This is the same link as yesterday's post.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/keep-rates-low-raise-taxes-rich-patient- says-161947825.html


Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 10:40 am:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


EVERYONE IN USA: We've had a lot of lofty discussions here. However I believe that the most important thing we can do about government and politics is a very practical, physical reality thing ... the most important thing to do is to vote.

Today is election day all through out the U.S.A. I encourage everyone to exercise their right and privilege as U.S. citizens and go to the polls and vote.

"Sometimes in teaching there is benefit, particularly after you have gone through what seems theoretical and quite remote from what the student has already learned, to bring him back to practical concerns. This we will do today. We will not speak of lofty, world-encompassing ideas but dwell instead on benefits to you." (OrEd.WkBk.133.1)


Countless wars have fought been fought and millions of bodies have died to insure that we have the ability to do just what is in our ability to do today. We can argue about the reality of death, whether it accomplishes anything, and the rest of the metaphysical idea another time.

I will vote today.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 11:53 pm:   

Tony,

WRT yours of Monday, November 07, 2011 at 06:36 pm. Interesting interview with Ben Stein. He clearly illustrates at least two of the problems. It might be a useful resource to further our discussions here if we could find a transcript.

If it were possible for video interviews like that, no matter how accurate or insightful, to lead to solutions, or to the prevention of problems, there wouldn't be a single economic problem left in the West, because the number of video interviews, similar to that one, that have been made and watched is beyond count, like the grains of sand on a beach. Videos can pique your interest but they can't lead to anything more useful than interest. In the final analysis they're useless without written analysis of a transcript. In reality they're worse than useless; they're actually destructive because 1) the listener thinks he learned something and now he knows more than he knew before, when in fact he didn't learn anything, and 2) the listener has wasted time that he otherwise would have used reading, which does lead to learning and knowing.

Do you know of a way to find a transcript on the web? Can you post a link to a transcript?

Love,

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 11:34 pm:   

Just in case anyone wondered ...

I wasn't picking on Maz about his grammer. Maz and I are friends and I've been helping him with some of the more mundane aspects of English -- such as irregular verbs like today's example -- for some time. Since Maz is translating ACIM from English into German and Dutch, as well as recording ACIM in English, every detail that he can pick up is important. My note to Maz about "caught" had nothing to do with the fact that I didn't like his post.

Actually I felt much better about his post after I threw up.

For those of you who are native speakers of English, don't be worried that I might correct your grammar. You're on your own.

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 09:21 pm:   

Hey Rich,

I won't be able to post much, but I saw your pic. Is that your latest pic? This ego of mine...hahahaha!

See you all later...I must disinfect myself for I have been doing some heavy work today...I stink like sewer water..hahahaha

I am a happy camper because no matter what they take from me, they cannot take away my happiness...I am just happy to be me, and to be here sharing this experience with you all...Nice Rich...hahahaha!

May happiness be the force that moves you!!!!

Happy me, I have a game of pool waiting...No brainier, just balance...

Maz, welcome to the club, I misspell words all the time...It is just what I do...lol! I will let you know what happened to Maria the plumber as soon as my pool game is over this evening. I am soooo soooo very happy!!!! Obama came to mind when I was doing something that I do not have experience on doing...I did the best I could...I did meet opposition though...will tell you all about it later...lol!

Love and Happiness to All,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rich LaSpesa (Rich)
Username: Rich

Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 07:45 pm:   



Here is my picture....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 07:34 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


RICH: Please post your picture when you post a message.

Here's the code:

\clipart{Rich}

That is a back slash "\" not a forward slash "/" and those are brackets "{" "}" not parenthesis "(" ")".

We all like to see everybody. It makes it less anonymous.

Also some of you are getting lax and not posting your picture every time. Please post your picture every time. If you are tired of the same picture, send me a new one. I currently am rotating 11 different pictures. There's no limit to the number of pictures you can have. Some of you are using pictures that are very old.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rich LaSpesa (Rich)
Username: Rich

Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 07:19 pm:   

Oh...sorry separation....spelling error on my last message...

Oh..and Maz.... My function in the Atonement?

Well, I am so happy that you asked.

My Happiness and my function are one.

God gives me only happiness.
He has given my funtion to me.
Therefore my function must be happiness.

That has always been my favorite lesson.

I am sending you all the most infinite of LOVE,

Rich
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rich LaSpesa (Rich)
Username: Rich

Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 07:08 pm:   

Bart,

Choose again......

Maz,

Considering that there is no seperation between me and God, I can and do create and co-create Reality.

I CAN CREATE REALITY!

Oh my God.....I love you guys,

Rich
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 06:36 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


EVERYBODY: I've listened to Ben Stein on and off. Can't say I'm a fan. He's quite conservative politically and I tend towards the liberal. Still, he's an intelligent man and I can frequently feel him "thinking" not just married to a particular rhetoric.

The main thing I listen for is something ethereal, an energy. I would be hard pressed to define it to anyone's satisfaction, but I could just say that when something has a certain Holy Spirit energy to it I listen differently. This particular 5 minute video had some Holy Spirit energy to it for me. Possibly it won't for you. That's fine. That's why we're all discussing.

I found this video of Ben Stein interesting. It's very balanced. He's quite clear on how bad things were in 2008. He's quite clear he's going to vote Republican but he also says that the economic situation should not be blamed on President Obama. His main message is patience. Overall I felt a good energy about this message. Plus he used the world "miracle" and that caught my attention. Please don't consider this an endorsement. It's just that I found this interesting, not fear based, balanced, hopeful and I think some may want to hear it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/keep-rates-low-raise-taxes-rich-patient- says-161947825.html


The link on the web page itself should be clickable. It might not survive the email transfer. There shouldn't be any spaces or line breaks in the URL. If there are, eliminate them and it should work.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 06:27 pm:   

Thanks Bart!

Good catch!

Spelling and grammar are sloppy, so please take the format with a grain of salt, (not sand) ;-)

I really recommend the "Zeitgeist" movie just to be aware of how the younger generation processes corporate misinformation. I don't recommend it to fellows who are unstable. Its not eactly what one thinks of as pretty.

Take good care, and thank you!

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 05:42 pm:   

Maz,

Thanks. Printed all yours and will read them. Since I've been helping with your English, a note:

The past tense of "catch" is "caught", not "catched".

Love,

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 05:23 pm:   

BART: " The choices that we face in government now are the great moral challenge of our times. It is the equivalent for our times to the fight against slavery in the 1800s, World War II in the 1930s and 1940s, and the stand against the Soviet Union from 1945 to 1991. Since you are endorsing this poster child for the choice for oppression, attack, cruelty, and ruin, if you wimp out on your responses I'll be very dissapointed."

Hey , I love a good debate. OK, just for general information, I think I am not doing the ostrich act. I have educated myself via alternative news channels ever since the internet was open to public and long before that. When I was 17, in post war Germany, I found out that the "Wirtschaftswunder" in Western Europe, which was sold to us as "Ultimate Freedom and Peace" was essentially paralell to the fact that the same companies who financed WWII and profited were the same who were waging war in Korea, splitting this country, too, in two. We were lied to and misinformed. I found that out very quickly by doing research.

In the last 2 decades, I even read articles by strong proponents of conspiracy models, such as David Icke, infowars.com, Alex Jones and other activists, seen websites of all sorts, looked at developments locally and globally, invested time to listen to the young generation of thinkers, modern philosophy and sociology, watched the Zeitgeist movie, the movie "Freedom to fascism", watched Michael Moore and the likes, and even watched mass media news regularily just to be aware of how the world operates, or at least how we are led to believe it operates.

As an example, I was informed through my own independant research about the false flag operation of 9/11 and the total impossibility of two planes bringing two buildings down like this, already on 9/12 already. One day after, I knews it was controlled demolition which brought the buildings down. I have done research into facts, or at least different approaches on how to discern facts from fiction. I knew of suspicious stock trading activities prior to what happened that day 1 day after the event. When something like Fukishima happens, I am eager to speak to professors and scientists with a reputation. I am always eager to not be duped, but stay informed, with the addition that I know to be careful to analyze the motives of anyone because it can be hazardous.

It needs some stomach for all this, so much I know. A quote comes to mind, which I must paraphrase, which essentially says we must be able to look at devastation without fear, even laugh at sickness and death, to be fully capable of miracle work in Jesus' name. This is on my "yet to achieve list", but Peace increases as I imagine Jesus and the Holy Spirit will fully and impeccably keep all their promises, and God's Will is never negotiable, neither in working nor in result.

So, I think its fair to say I am not being indifferent regarding the ways in which the world is operated. The opposite is true, I am very much convinced it needs a very all-encompassing Miracle and the Atonement in full throttle, and a shift of collective Mind to bring true Change. To know this, I needed to educate myself about the ego's ways that are somehow obvious when we look with healed perception, and do so without condemnation. I just suspect that Jesus is right when he teaches us that not one single roadway of the world can be the answer. I also witness to the fact that healed perception is possible and that as an individual I have the obligation to put in practice - as good as possible - what he teaches. And by this to be useful and helpful to the Sonship and our collective awakening.

So, I have prayed about an eloquent response which doesn't wimp out. My previous post should have made it clear that an endorsement was not the idea of sharing that article, but an act of a neutral contribution. I haven't even read the entire article myself, yet, as it touches upon recent developments and catched my attention, there you have it. I don't know if you had the time to listen to that BBC interview I shared a couple of weeks ago, in which the broker shares that not government rules but Goldman Sachs and that the depression is something he prays for to happen soon every night. Again, I take all that with a grain of sand. Which doesn't mean that I wouldn't trust a Course veteran with skills in economics when he explains with reason and logic something to me in a way I can somehow follow! (That would be you ;-)

So, still, TBH this is all like rocket science to me. I don't have the senses to understand all this in detail. But I owe you a summary of what I think is going on sometimes. IMHO: The ego's modus operandus in the world is generally understood as "divide & conquer" principle. The dynamic is universal and proceeds along the same logic. I will give it a try and put it in words. Its not refined philosophy, but just written down at a late hour.

1. In a perfect state or balanced state, where the ego wants to dominate, rule, govern or direct towards chaos and power, it miscreates a problem. It does this in a very sneaky way. Its motives are obscured, its doings are camouflaged and its true goal is never revealed. Its a con artist. Its not anyone's friend.

2. Once an artificial (not natural) problem is miscreated, havoc occurs, and then we have debate. Everyone thinks, we must solve this problem, but almost no-one is fully aware of who caused it and why. The one's who know are silenced. We debate while, quite unnoticed, the ego is part of each side of the debate, infiltrates, controlling each side of the debate by dishonest means. Sock-puppets, shadow arguments, complexity, intriegues, and even destructive means are employed if necessary.

3. When the chaos is at its peak, the ego throws its solution into the ring camouflaged as "salvation". Everyone is so confused and tired and stressed out by now, that all of a sudden, this solution must "be it". The result is, of course, not an honest improvement but a scam. Think of all the laws that were on the table before 9/11 but couldn't pass the senate, suddenly find accord. Privacy, homeland security, patriot act you name it. b- i am just throing in an example.

My view on all this revealed to me that some observers see a much bigger scenario behind the so-called war on terror, which is on the forefront. There is a war in the skies. One super nation tries to dominate space while others pledge for neutrality and prepare themselves for massive strike-backs. USA, China and Russia and Europe seem to be main players. I have no idea how many trillions are spent on this field, but added to the enormous costs of the war machine, drug machine, prostitution machine and media machines, but anyone can educate themselves, ie. by watching a video summary of the Canadian summit on google videos. Its not that the information is hidden any more. Its just not main stream and will never be allowed to go mainstream. ( A rather *seemingly* humoristic example is contained in this 2 minute clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JenNEjKA7k0 ("
Title: "If you ever had any doubt the media was controlled..."

I so much wish to see the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. I think it is as simple (and as difficult!) as everyone following the Golden Rule because this is already embedded in every authentic tradition and scripture. But IMO one must understand the prerequisite for it, otherwise it will also be abused as an instrument for conflict. But I believe this simple two-facetted rule is potent and will one day be emraced. Jesus encourages us to bring this moment into the Now by use of the Holy Instant. So everyone has a true and honest chance to understand the simplicity of salvation.

Love,

maz
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 02:30 pm:   

Rich: "I CAN CREATE REALITY!!!!"

Well, pleased to meet you Rich.

Honesty obliges me to add that you and I and everyone here, in an ACIM context, are co-creators. Not Creator of Reality. That is our Father, Prime Cause, and the "Father is greater".

The Course says that co-creating is our function in Heaven. On earth, our function is healing.

What is your personal special function in the Atonement? It would be nice to know. We all have our unique talents and assignments. I love the idea that we can share and trust each other to fulfill whatever we are called to do in specific terms.

In terms of ACIM, it was essential to me to realize that our individuality, whether on earth or in Heaven, is a God-created sharing mechanism, so to speak. That is why I love the various angles and displays of talent or function so very much.

Thanks for sharing, all.
namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 02:11 pm:   

Dear ACIM friends,

BART: Finally, your statement "We have elections, but they mean nothing because they decide nothing" can not possibly be in accord with ACIM. Is this your quote, or are you quoting someone else?"

No, that is a quote from said article. I couldn't ever make such a statement because I am not authorized by Spirit to do that.

Bart, I very much appreciate your comments, and if my posting of that link served anything useful, maybe its at least your sharing on the very topic. Thanks, brother.

As I have shared before, I am - with regards to economics and politics - maybe quite on the other end of the spectrum in terms of alertness and expertise. What I do is try to focus on inner work and study much like yourself, but I am guided to generally avoid being exposed to news media and politics. My assignment geared me to much simpler tasks. As an artist I tend to be romantic and even maybe a bit naive in those matters.

That said, I do have hunches. One of them is that I just don't "hear coherent statements" wrt. OWS. I am very cautious about drawing conclusions on the field of econmics and politics because I am just not equipped nor sufficiently educated to do that.

The link I posted is shared because I sensed some relevance to this thread. I truly care about our human evolution and share many concerns about a prevailing imbalance and essential conflicts of interest between ego and Holy Spirit played out in our world. I am grateful for a broadening of my horizons on this blog.

Peace and thanks,
namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 02:03 pm:   

Rich,

Thanks. What I observe in the ACIM community is that most of it appears to be allergic to participating in any SPECIFIC solutions that involve and SPECIFIC knowledge or SPECIFIC action.

So let me ask you a question. Is there anything specific that you would ever stand for or against? Is there anything specific that you would ever do or, on the basis of conscience, refrain from doing? Would you have endorsed the civil rights movement in the USA in 1962? Would you have taken a stand against slavery 1845? Would you have refrained from participating in lynchings? Do you ever apply ACIM to anything specific in your life, and if so, can you give us an example?

Love,

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rich LaSpesa (Rich)
Username: Rich

Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 01:45 pm:   

Bart,



I see that you like to talk about Government and Politics. And, I realize that this thread is for that purpose.

I just wanted to share my thoughts about all this conversation.

I intentionally do not watch the news or read newspapers. I find that most news is bad news and I prefer good news.

Many people have told me that I am not facing "Reality."

So, when others say "You should face reality, I say the following:

I do. I do face reality!!!

I have just become a more selective sifter of the reality I face.

Because I have begun to discover that whatever reality I am facing: Whatever reality I am talking about, thinking about, remembering, regurgitating; Whatever reality I am making statistics of; Whatever reality i am holding for very long in my vibration(my awareness) becomes my own reality. And, I have become particular about the realities that I replicate in my experience. Because I have discovered that I can create REALITY!

I CAN CREATE REALITY!!!!

And, so do you create reality....Your Reality!

Please choose wisely :-)

There is infinite love and appreciation for you here!!!!

Rich
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Judy Junghans (Judy)
Username: Judy

Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 01:34 pm:   

Good morning everyone!

Bart wrote: "Next, I think it's interesting that you are hearing coherent
statements about facts from the Occupy Wall Street movement. So far,
in all that I've read, and I've read quite a bit about OWS recently, I
haven't heard any coherent statements from them about anything except
a few requests that are so destructive that I can't imagine an ACIM
student associating himself with them. ..."

Marianne Williamson spoke in Berkeley yesterday about OWS. She did mention that she does not object to capitalism. She gave a lot of history, quoting Ghandi and ML King. I was feeling a bit distracted until she came around to bringing Spirit into the protests. She suggested reciting some principles for peace by ML King and to sit in meditation to balance the energy. She cautioned about using violence because it will destroy any efforts.

What I can relate to is the fact that our Democracy is very fragile at this time. Caroline Myss actually suggests the US is more Fascist than Democratic.

Marianne has a Facebook page, and her involvement with OWS is recorded there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 01:10 pm:   

Maz,

It will be a while before I have a chance to read your link, but I want to challenge you on your last post.

First of all, the Nobel committee awarded the Peace Prize to terrorist Yassar Arafat, and to Barack Obama when his accomplishments consisted of serving as a state senator who voted "present" over a hundred times plus less than one full term in the US Senate -- a term during which he said and did nothing to prevent our current problems. So I think we can toss out the Nobel award as having any value on social topics like economics. If the Nobel committee had been doing any helpful work with regards to economics, they would have identified the correct economists and Europe and the USA would not be having any of the current problems.

Secondly, Ben Bernanke was the chairman of the economics department at Princeton. Also we can note that the economics department at Princeton never voiced even a peep about our current problems as they developed over the decades when it was not too late to prevent them, so we can clearly identify that department as being either a total fraud or, at the very least, not being a source of valid credentials at all.

On to Krugman. I've been reading him for a long time because I think it's important to get the liberal perspective sometimes. He's written some interesting things. But in the big picture he's horribly confused, and he is the economics "poster child" for using government to attack everyone all the time. Also I will point out that since he writes regularly for the New York Times, if he had even the slightest understanding of economics we would never have experienced any of the current problems.

Next, I think it's interesting that you are hearing coherent statements about facts from the Occupy Wall Street movement. So far, in all that I've read, and I've read quite a bit about OWS recently, I haven't heard any coherent statements from them about anything except a few requests that are so destructive that I can't imagine an ACIM student associating himself with them. Given that I've done all this reading and haven't seen the facts to which you are referring, I challenge you to summarize them here rather than just posting a link.

Next, we're all entitled to our opinions, and "every respectable expert" expresses an opinion about which experts you respect. I have different opinions, and all of the "experts" that I respect think that both Krugman and the OWS movement are toxic.

My next challenge is for you to post Krugman's history of explaining the financial catastrophe during the period 1992 to 2005 -- the period when we could still address it before it was too late. Many economists did, but what I saw every day was that the mainstream economists (Krugman is one) were able to distract 99.9% of the public from the truth, and since they never heard the truth, we got the current results. I can't conclusively say that Krugman didn't explain it in a timely fashion, but since you are holding forth this epitome of economic violence as a voice to be listened to, I challenge you to post here a summary of the cases where he was the one mainstream economist who was helpful while all the others were harmful.

Finally, your statement "We have elections, but they mean nothing because they decide nothing" can not possibly be in accord with ACIM. Is this your quote, or are you quoting someone else? Also, how can you reconcile this statement with your spiritual path, which tells us just the opposite -- that our choices determine what occurs in our lives. Also I will add that as an ACIM student, if you're going to make a pessimistic statement like this, you should offer an optimistic alternative. What is your alternative to elections? Ever since ancient Greece elections have been considered to be a solution, but you're saying that they aren't. Can you suggest a better solution for us? Finally, since you value reason, can you give historical or current examples of how the world is worse with elections, or how places that don't have elections are or have been better off?

I read an editorial yesterday that called the current situation "... the fight to save liberty for this and future generations of Americans ..." The choices that we face in government now are the great moral challenge of our times. It is the equivalent for our times to the fight against slavery in the 1800s, World War II in the 1930s and 1940s, and the stand against the Soviet Union from 1945 to 1991. Since you are endorsing this poster child for the choice for oppression, attack, cruelty, and ruin, if you wimp out on your responses I'll be very dissapointed.

Love,

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 11:59 am:   

An article probably of great interest for this thread:

Nobel Prize winning economist, Princeton University Economics Professor and New York Times Columnist Paul Krugman is echoing the statements of every respectable expert - Occupy Wall Street is right on the facts.

http://tinyurl.com/cj6efux

"We have elections, but they mean nothing because they decide nothing."



Peace, maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 11:55 am:   

Good Morning Friends,

Again, I wish to express my gratitude for this dialogue and blog. There is a lot of food for thought and a lot of things to learn here, and unlearn.

I, for one, have always benefited from learning about individual thought processes which might differ from my own, and I also enjoy a good debate or discussion. So everyone, Thank You!

What I've learned recently is that by combining various levels into application and reasoning in ACIM's framework, it can be a great advantage to remain vigilant regarding possible level confusions. For example, let me summarize from another class:

- First, having a religious or political discussion or debate is not the same as having a philosophical or metaphysical debate.

- A religious or political debate is nearly always based on belief and opinion.

- A philosophic or metaphysical debate is based on and is generally concerned with meta concerns, ie, how do we know, how do we know what we believe is true, what is truth, with is reality, etc. Philosophic or methapysical debate is also concerned with reason and logic and the development and consequence of belief and opinions.

- As such, one shouldn't mistake people sharing their beliefs and opinions as anything more than sharing beliefs and opinions. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions.

- Ie. a person is entitled to believe God is Allah, or Gaia, or believe A an P are ascended masters. Or believe there is no God at all.
But in the arena of ideas where precision of thought, right thought and appropriate action is aligned, they are not entitled to any more than their belief and opinion.

So, when my buttons are pushed its an opportunity for healing, not so much for analyzing the motives of a brother or sister, which is said to be "hazardous".

When the point of view somebody else presents is arousing fear in me, it is hardly the other person I need to reject (separation is the notion of rejection) but most probably have a miracle so that Love can supply that which the fearthought was lacking. And this actually means rejecting the fear, which in turn strengthens our shared Peace.

That way, IMHO however and in all cases, only gratitude is due to everyone for both, their expressions of Love and of lack of love.

Christine, I have come to know you a bit as a passionate and elaborate thinker who is straight forward and also dares to share emotions in a fearless way. I'd hope you would not chose to "bang the door" and leave, just because a dialogue doesn't comply to your highest expectations.

And I need to learn this myself, so I'm happy to learn here with all of you. As Course students we all know how to avoid the temptation of taking things too personally or of thinking we are being unfairly treated.

I think it very much helps that we keep our priorities in line, so, ACIM and following Jesus and the Holy Spirit is our common ground, and from there we can tackle anything on any level for healing and learning/unlearning purposes. It is not that our elder brother is anyhow indifferent about the application of his methods and thoughtsystem.

Personally, I can't contribute much else than interest and a listening curiosity on this thread. Politically, I am not educated, but I am afraid a two party system in a world "ruled not by government but by Goldman Sachs" (BBC report, October 2011) shows a tendency for less discernment and choice. On the other hand, here in the Netherlands we already have municiplaties where 8 elected parties are in charge in one cabinet WITHOUT any oppositional party involved at all.

My hope and prayers go out to the celestial-speed-up and the grand Awakening which will hopefully save lots of time and needless suffering. God in His Grace has solved all of our difficulties, yet free will is still the decisive factor of each individual's readiness to accept it. I hope all levels of our societies will soon rejoyce in a powerful new Revelation: As humanity, all we need master now is ethics, and the Golden Rule is already known in every corner of the world. When will we apply it? And must we not start in our direct relationships and right there where we are.

Easier said than done. I totally agree that this brings with it the responsibility to identify error before we can invite and choose correction.

Jesus reminds us today in OrEd.Tx.2.98: "What man believes is true for him. In this sense the separation has occurred, and to deny this is merely to misuse denial. However, to concentrate on error is merely a further misuse of defenses. The true corrective procedure is to recognize error temporarily but only as an indication that immediate correction is mandatory. This establishes a state of mind in which the Atonement can be accepted without delay."

A great day everyOne,

maz
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 07:44 pm:   

Bart,

I WORK EVERY DAY WITH these people...
homeless person, or an person who can't get a job, or a person who can't get proper medical care for his children because he can't get a job, try explaining to him your perspective that we should ignore specifics of how and why this is happening, that we should ignore specifics of how to make things better, and that the solution is simply for him to feel differently about his condition. Maybe you would like to write some political detainees in Venezuela or North Korea and tell them that government is not to be feared. I have to say that with the Holocaust still in living memory, it's rather amazing to hear a Jewish person express the perspectives that you have about government not being a cause of problems.

I do not actually think you do get my drift....I KNOW there are always 2 sides...When I choose to be closed minded about one side or the other I am CREATING cause for what you seem to think is of value. FEAR, using your knowledge at times a sort of bully pulpit.

MY DRIFT is....presenting one side is the same as no side. You believe the CAUSE of the suffering of my Brothers and Sister's is government. I believe it may be a part. I agree that there is always value sharing what is of personal perception however, when it is closed it does not represent the teaching of ACIM.

I prefer to accept and understand that there ARE ALWAYS 2 sides to every issue. When I dig my heels in only telling you and others my perception is fact. ACIM teaches very bluntly...

Perception is A Mirror. It is not fact. My drift was I would like to know you Bart. What I know is what you write that is only of a negative perception of government. Using the poor, the homeless, the war victims, jobless does not camoflage the negativity without any openness even to the possibility to you.

I am amazed that a student of ACIM would so doggedly sit on such a rock. My own daughter, a college graduate w/a double major has had tremendous difficulty finding work. She took a minimum wage job while the world view shifts and she will be able to fulfill her passion and professional goals. Had she accepted the negative projections that government is the "cause" of her suffering she would be under the covers with not even a minimum wage job.

Again...I do look forward to the possibility that you would someday choose to engage in a dialogue. A conversation wherein Miracles are encouraged...ie:WILLINGNESS to Shift Perception for the good of self and other selves.

I have remained engaged with the hope that I would read an openness from you. I suppose it is time to remember...."People do what they do." You seem to do negative projections about the government. I am sure your projections are healing for some. I just don't get it. I think it is best I look for another class for now.
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 04:52 pm:   

Good Day, dear Friends,

I am grateful for the discussion. Somehow, Spirit is in accord, in my experience, with providing inspiring news. Not that I understand all that, but I have a hunch to forward what passes across my 3 monitors today:

Global systemic crisis – First half of 2012: Decimation of the Western banks article:

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-58-is-available-Global-systemic-crisis-First-half- of-2012-Decimation-of-the-Western-banks_a7904.html

Ex-Bush Adviser: Germany Prints Old Currency in Case Euro Ditched

Read more: Ex-Bush Adviser: Germany Prints Old Currency in Case Euro Ditched

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Ex-BushAdviserGermanyPrintsOldCurrencyinCase EuroDitched/2011/10/04/id/413225#ixzz1Zqpe4umZ

Otherwise, we have the Korean translation of the OrEd., alongside the German, Dutch and Japanese going on, plus a new contact for a Russian translation. Jesus orchestrates the Atonement. He is King.

Thank you Brothers and Sisters in Christ!

namazte
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 01:47 pm:   

Christine,

I get your drift. Obviously I disagree with your perspective. Once you start to realize that our elected representatives have used the overwhelming power of government to force the financial and economic crisis upon us, and that we elected our representatives, so that in fact is has been "us" who are weilding this power against our brothers, it might be useful to ask yourself three questions:
1) Do you understand how we / our government has been doing this?
2) Do you understand who we have voted for that has tried / is trying to prevent / end the problem?
3) Do you understand who we have voted for that has tried / is trying to ensure that the problem was not prevented / is not ended?

Next time you see a homeless person, or an person who can't get a job, or a person who can't get proper medical care for his children because he can't get a job, try explaining to him your perspective that we should ignore specifics of how and why this is happening, that we should ignore specifics of how to make things better, and that the solution is simply for him to feel differently about his condition. Maybe you would like to write some political detainees in Venezuela or North Korea and tell them that government is not to be feared. I have to say that with the Holocaust still in living memory, it's rather amazing to hear a Jewish person express the perspectives that you have about government not being a cause of problems.

There's a reason why I expanded the MOE acronym to MOELAS -- Mind Only Experience, Let's All Suffer. Your perspective is an example of it.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 11:01 am:   

Bart,

I just sent my thoughts and ACIM guided experiences from my lesson practice from yesterday and today. I opened my email to post it and saw these perceptions of yours.

I just had an OMG-Oh MY God moment.

"GAPAA – IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM AND WHO TO VOTE FOR IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK"

I would like it if you would take the time to help me understand how this perception is helpful to me in the world symbols chosen here? Given the last lesson 304 is bluntly, utterly with no mistake or error about it.. WHOLLY COMPLETELY saying I, me, myself, AM totally, solely/soully, responsible for my perceptions. Therefore it is I who can, does AND WILL choose, personally, what I project of my OWN perceptive experience.

"WHO TO VOTE FOR IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK" appears to be a personal statement of your OWN perception projected as your statement telling me WHO to vote for IF I want TO attack. When I imagine this in the context of The Second Coming as it is written in OE pag 392, pg 3

"The Second Coming ENDS the LESSONS which the Holy Spirit TEACHES, making way for the Last Judgement, in which LEARNING ENDS IN ONE LAST SUMMARY THAT WILL EXTEND BEYOND ITSELF AND REACHES up to God. The Second Coming is the time in which all minds are given to the hands of Christ, to be returned to Spirit in the name of true creation and the Will of God."

Pretty scary way to CREATE a Miracle my Brother! I am hoping you will take time to dialogue. How will/WILL "GAPAA – IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM AND WHO TO VOTE FOR IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK" heal the minds of the Sonship? How does projecting your perceptions create Miracles for healing if perceptions of fear, bodily concerns related to being a body? How will this reinforce remembering ONENESS? And...How does this appear to relate to the second coming AS an opportunity to ask for guidance from the HS pertaining to the stated knowing..

What is the Second Coming teaches...ENDS the LESSONS which the Holy Spirit TEACHES, making way for the Last Judgement, in which LEARNING ENDS IN ONE LAST SUMMARY THAT WILL EXTEND BEYOND ITSELF AND REACHES up to God ????

How can I know you Bart? What you project as your perceptions in this scream at me be afraid, be very afraid Christine....

"GAPAA – IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM AND WHO TO VOTE FOR IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK"

I am not afraid of government. I know there IS another perception that can be chosen. I ALSO know that we as Miracle Workers are taught when we listen carefully to self, HS and God we can share of our own personal perceptions with others as self-reflection rather than projection of self experience of fear. Bart, I am happy you are choosing to share your fearful perceptions I welcome the time you will take to ALSO choose to share a balance in your projections from your personally experience and perceptions.
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 02:36 am:   

GAPAA – IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM AND WHO TO VOTE FOR IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK

Friends,

The following is the first page and a half of the October 2011 issue of Stansberry's Investment Advisory. I think it's accurate. With regards to whether Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were at the absolute center of causing the housing bubble and the associated economic trauma, there is no doubt about it. As with the Federal Reserve, they were supposedly private institutions, but to present them as anything other than arms of the federal government is nothing but blatant deception. President Bush tried to reign them in, about 2003 as I recall, but he was thwarted by Congress. With regards to whether there was any chance that they were NOT going to go broke on the path that they were on, all I can say is that I started tracking them on a daily basis in about 2003 because by that time it was obvious that they were going to go broke. So if you can identify the lawmakers who ensured that they would remain on their path to destruction and drag the rest of the country along with them over the cliff, then you're making a good step in knowing what sort of candidate to vote for in the future if you're in a mood to attack your fellow Americans.

Happy reading,

Bart




The Western world is broke.

It became that way by indulging in a whole series of socialist programs – such as mandating that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac support mortgage credit from borrowers who weren't creditworthy. In Europe, the main culprit wasn't mortgage credit, but sovereign credit. Various banking rules encouraged reckless lending to peripheral governments whose credit profiles were falsely enhanced by membership in the euro.

For decades, the wealthiest nations in the world have run their financial affairs like the poor folks at the check-cashing store on Fridays. They've lived far beyond their means, so they could buy the nation-state equivalent of menthols and Old Crow. The U.S., which had been the largest creditor to the world, has become the largest debtor in history. Even today, its federal government continues to borrow more than $1 trillion a year, in order to maintain a military budget that's already larger than what the rest of the world combined spends on its military and a medical establishment that consumes almost 20% of GDP, more than twice what any other developed nation spends on health care.

This is financial insanity on a scale the world has never seen before. And rather than making any substantial changes... we've addressed the financial crisis by borrowing more and spending more.

The result is going to be a global catastrophe.

Please understand... we know there were plenty of bad actors in the private and public sector. But governments created the structures and the incentives that drove the markets to such excess.

For example, Countrywide Financial – the worst of the worst subprime mortgage companies – sold nearly all of its loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which were virtual departments of the federal government. Without Fannie and Freddie, there could have been no subprime bubble – no housing bubble at all, actually.

Both the Treasury secretary and the Federal Reserve chairman testified before Congress in the summer of 2008 that these government-sponsored mortgage giants were "adequately capitalized" just weeks before they essentially went bankrupt. There's no question that those were the biggest lies told by anyone, at any time during the credit bubble. Meanwhile, many analysts, including writers at the Wall Street Journal, had been warning the public about the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac since 2003.

At every turn, two Democratic lawmakers – Rep. Barney Frank (Mass.) and then-Sen. Christopher Dodd (Conn.) – defended the companies. Make no mistake, the blame for the crisis lies squarely at their feet. Without the multitrillion-dollar expansion of Fannie and Freddie's balance sheets, the housing bubble would not have occurred.

In Europe, to support the creation of a currency backed by nothing (not even a political union), banking regulations were put into effect that allowed commercial banks to hold all forms of European sovereign debt without any reserves. As a result, credit spreads between places like Greece and Germany converged, as was required for the success of the euro. But as all investors should have known and are about to find out, Greece isn't Germany. The Greeks have an entirely different culture in regards to working, debts, and taxes.

The irony is, none of the people truly responsible for making these rules and setting the euro crisis in motion will ever have to answer for their crimes because they sit in the highest places of government.

To date, I see no reason to believe any major Western power has learned anything from these experiences.

Rather than reducing the power of the central governments and reversing the massive government debts, every action taken since the fall of 2008 has increased the role of the government and amount of borrowing. Spending, taxes, Federal Reserve manipulation, government debts... we've gotten more of all of the things that caused our economies to collapse in the first place. This indicates to me we are a long way from learning anything from our past mistakes.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 10:18 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


BART: Wonderful article by Ron Paul. I have enjoyed listening to Ron Paul during the Republican debates which I always watch, in bits and pieces after they happen on YouTube.

I like a lot of what Ron Paul says (not all of it). When he speaks I get the feeling that he has been awake for most of his years and he has kept learning. He has the wisdom of age about him and I like that. He didn't go to sleep as he got older. He's stayed awake.

I agree with you about the Federal Reserve being part of the government -- a strange and complicated part of the government but part of the government none the less. I do want to acknowledge that more people have more understanding about financial matters than I have ever seen before. Although there is a lot of disagreement this is still the most educated I have ever seen the society about such things. It may take awhile, but I have faith in my bothers and sister (and myself) that we will all learn what we need to learn so that we all develop the ability to get out of the financial mess we are in.

"Abilities must be developed, or you cannot use them. This is not true of anything that God created, but it is the kindest solution possible to what you have made. In an impossible situation, you can develop your abilities to the point where they can get you out of it. You have a Guide to how to develop them, but you have no commander except yourself." (OrEd.Tx.6.53)


The situation may seem impossible, but with God all things are possible. I'm holding out for the miracle!

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 09:10 pm:   

CENTRAL BANKS AS INSTRUMENTS OF ATTACK

Friends,

Once again I was hoping to not post today, but once again in my daily reading I came across something that was not only too compelling to ignore, but also too compelling to put in my "later" stack. For any who are new to theses posts or want a refresher, my overall train of thought has been:
1) As ACIM students a required part of this path is getting out attack.
2) We conduct some vast proportion of the attack that we do upon each other by using government as an intermediary to conduct that attack.
3) Most of us are unconscious that we are doing this and unconscious of how we are doing this.
4) The scope of the attack that we are doing through government is vast.
5) We have to educate ourselves about how we are using government to hurt each other in order to stop using government to hurt each other.

I probably have two or three hundred posts on this topic queued up, but I'm trying to pace myself. In order to create some structure for myself, I've tried to identify some of the biggest and broadest ways that we use government to attack each other. Some examples that I have provided in the past are transfer payments, government debt, government retirement programs, minimum wage laws, and government advantage in schools. There is another one of the biggest ways that government attacks that I may not have mentioned yet. In the USA it would certainly have to be in the top 10 list, and maybe in the top five list. Setting interest rates is attack, and the results are catastrophic on a monumental scale. In the past the point has been raised that in the USA the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and the Federal Reserve is a "private institution". Those points are true but irrelevant to the discussion, because the Federal Reserve was created by government and its unique power to set interest rates was given to it, and it alone, by government. To say that the Federal Reserve is not an arm of the government is like saying if I pay someone to rob your house and he does, I am not responsible for the burglary. The Federal Reserve is the elephant here, every American is the mouse, and the Federal Government is the director who brought the elephant upon the mice, feeds him, and ensures that he continues to enslave the mice.

I haven't yet read the entire article that I'm posting below. The title, the top-line summary, and the first paragraph tell me all I need to know. Ron Paul is making the point, with more credibility than I could, that I was going to make sooner or later. The Federal Reserve's basic, normal, day-to-day, deliberate activities are a way that we use the overwhelming and irresistible power of government to inflict misery and suffering upon each other. I've been saying for a decade that tens of millions of us were responsible for the financial crisis, but the Federal Reserve bears more responsibility than any other organization. I think that those of us who have actually watched the crisis slowly unfold every day for the last 22 years can safely consider that to be closer to an obvious fact than to an opinion. A couple of quotes from the article:
"The Fed fails to grasp that an interest rate is a price, the price of time. Attempting to manipulate that price is as destructive as any other government price control."
"When central banks like the Fed manage money they are engaging in price fixing, which leads not to prosperity but to disaster."

Until we start to understand things like this, the misery and the suffering will not end. Some day a majority of our population will rise up to the point to where we put an end to this kind of inhumanity. I hope when that day comes the ACIM community will be able to say "we were a part of the healing" instead of "we stood aside, learning nothing, saying nothing, and doing nothing, while other people set things right".

One theme is always consistent in GAPAA (Government And Politics As Attack): more power in the hands of the government (in this case the power to set interest rates), less power in the hands of the individual citizen.

Love,

Bart

1 "… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

2 "Is it not true you do not recognize some of the forms attack can take? … Attack in any form is equally destructive. … He may … justify his savagery with smiles as he attacks. … any form, however lovely and charitable it may seem to be …
OrEd.Tx.23.41-42

3 "I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

4 "All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

5 "To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

6 "This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

7 "[Satan] did not care if everyone gave lip service to the teachings of Jesus, just so long as no one tried to live them."
The Starseed Transmission, page 67

8 "Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

9 "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart



source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576637290931614006.html

OCTOBER 20, 2011 Blame the Fed for the Financial Crisis

The Fed fails to grasp that an interest rate is a price, the price of time. Attempting to manipulate that price is as destructive as any other government price control.

By RON PAUL

To know what is wrong with the Federal Reserve, one must first understand the nature of money. Money is like any other good in our economy that emerges from the market to satisfy the needs and wants of consumers. Its particular usefulness is that it helps facilitate indirect exchange, making it easier for us to buy and sell goods because there is a common way of measuring their value. Money is not a government phenomenon, and it need not and should not be managed by government. When central banks like the Fed manage money they are engaging in price fixing, which leads not to prosperity but to disaster.

The Federal Reserve has caused every single boom and bust that has occurred in this country since the bank's creation in 1913. It pumps new money into the financial system to lower interest rates and spur the economy. Adding new money increases the supply of money, making the price of money over time—the interest rate—lower than the market would make it. These lower interest rates affect the allocation of resources, causing capital to be malinvested throughout the economy. So certain projects and ventures that appear profitable when funded at artificially low interest rates are not in fact the best use of those resources.

Eventually, the economic boom created by the Fed's actions is found to be unsustainable, and the bust ensues as this malinvested capital manifests itself in a surplus of capital goods, inventory overhangs, etc. Until these misdirected resources are put to a more productive use—the uses the free market actually desires—the economy stagnates.

The great contribution of the Austrian school of economics to economic theory was in its description of this business cycle: the process of booms and busts, and their origins in monetary intervention by the government in cooperation with the banking system. Yet policy makers at the Federal Reserve still fail to understand the causes of our most recent financial crisis. So they find themselves unable to come up with an adequate solution.

In many respects the governors of the Federal Reserve System and the members of the Federal Open Market Committee are like all other high-ranking powerful officials. Because they make decisions that profoundly affect the workings of the economy and because they have hundreds of bright economists working for them doing research and collecting data, they buy into the pretense of knowledge—the illusion that because they have all these resources at their fingertips they therefore have the ability to guide the economy as they see fit.

Nothing could be further from the truth. No attitude could be more destructive. What the Austrian economists Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich von Hayek victoriously asserted in the socialist calculation debate of the 1920s and 1930s—the notion that the marketplace, where people freely decide what they need and want to pay for, is the only effective way to allocate resources—may be obvious to many ordinary Americans. But it has not influenced government leaders today, who do not seem to see the importance of prices to the functioning of a market economy.

The manner of thinking of the Federal Reserve now is no different than that of the former Soviet Union, which employed hundreds of thousands of people to perform research and provide calculations in an attempt to mimic the price system of the West's (relatively) free markets. Despite the obvious lesson to be drawn from the Soviet collapse, the U.S. still has not fully absorbed it.

The Fed fails to grasp that an interest rate is a price—the price of time—and that attempting to manipulate that price is as destructive as any other government price control. It fails to see that the price of housing was artificially inflated through the Fed's monetary pumping during the early 2000s, and that the only way to restore soundness to the housing sector is to allow prices to return to sustainable market levels. Instead, the Fed's actions have had one aim—to keep prices elevated at bubble levels—thus ensuring that bad debt remains on the books and failing firms remain in business, albatrosses around the market's neck.

The Fed's quantitative easing programs increased the national debt by trillions of dollars. The debt is now so large that if the central bank begins to move away from its zero interest-rate policy, the rise in interest rates will result in the U.S. government having to pay hundreds of billions of dollars in additional interest on the national debt each year. Thus there is significant political pressure being placed on the Fed to keep interest rates low. The Fed has painted itself so far into a corner now that even if it wanted to raise interest rates, as a practical matter it might not be able to do so. But it will do something, we know, because the pressure to "just do something" often outweighs all other considerations.

What exactly the Fed will do is anyone's guess, and it is no surprise that markets continue to founder as anticipation mounts. If the Fed would stop intervening and distorting the market, and would allow the functioning of a truly free market that deals with profit and loss, our economy could recover. The continued existence of an organization that can create trillions of dollars out of thin air to purchase financial assets and prop up a fundamentally insolvent banking system is a black mark on an economy that professes to be free.

Mr. Paul, a congressman from Texas, is seeking the Republican presidential nomination.
Copyright 2011 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 04:49 pm:   

GERMAN CHANCELLOR MERKEL: "EUROPE’S DEEPEST CRISIS SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR II"

Friends,

The European debt crisis is at the forefront of all the financial headlines today, as it has been for some time. In a speech before the Bundestag today, German Chancellor Angela Merkel called the current situation "Europe’s deepest crisis since the end of World War II". You can find this all over the web if you google "“Europe’s deepest crisis since the end of world war".

Let's all agree that we can define "crisis" in this case as "a situation in which people are getting hurt", while at the same time recognizing that "getting hurt" is not restricted to harm inflicted upon physical bodies.

For those who don't follow this sort of thing, it's a crisis for two reasons.

The first reason that this is a crisis is because of Europe's governments, which have wracked up debt that they can't possibly pay, have in place programs that can only result in increasing their debt perpetually instead of reducing it (so that the problem continues to get worse year-by-year instead of healing), and have increased their overall level of debt to a point where the debt in and of itself is harmful instead of helpful.

The second reason that this is a crisis is because a large portion of the European government debt that can't be paid is held by European banks. If the governments can't pay off their debt the banks suffer financial losses. If the banks suffer financial losses that are too heavy, then they go out of business. When banks go out of business, not only are they no longer available to make loans that fuel the economy, but also their depositors lose their assets. This is exactly what happened in the Great Depression in the USA. Banks made enormous amounts of unwise loans, loans that were unlikely to be paid back. In that case the loans were mostly to the private sector rather to governments. When a large portion of the loans went bad all at once, thousands of banks went out of business, causing millions of individuals and business to lose their deposits (checking and savings accounts). When these deposits were wiped away, individuals and businesses had no money to buy with, and the economy was plunged into depression. This is an example of the fact that the banking industry as a whole is uniquely important in the role that it plays in society, and also uniquely capable of causing harm to society if it stumbles.

By the way, I will express my opinion that after some point in the late 1990s or early 2000s no sane banker would have bought any debt from any of the European governments that are currently having difficulties. I first read back in the 1980s that large banks have a magnetic attraction to bad debt, and since reading that I have seen it in action many times. So, yes, I am saying that most of the decision-makers at large banks are literally insane in every sense of the word, and they act insanely. This should be quite obvious, but the more who point out that the emperor has not clothes, the better.

Of course in some past cases governments have saved banks by forcing taxpayers to cover the banks' losses, but that's not a good solution.

I post this simply to illustrate two of the most important points that we most understand if we are going to stop attacking each other through government. First, that government is one of the primary ways that we attack each other. In this case governments throughout Europe have been the tool used by the voting majority to attack everyone by taking out too much debt. Second, that the banking industry is unique in it's ability to harm society, that it will wreck society once every forty to eighty years if it is not properly regulated by government, and that maintaining proper regulation of the banking sector is an essential role of government. So in this case we can learn that not only is proper regulation of the banking sector essential, but the failure to perform this function by Europe's governments is another case of governments being at the very center of the problems that we experience in life.

I will also add that because the health of the banks is so essential to society, implementing regulations that are overtly harmful to the banking sector, which we have done for many years in the USA, is one of the most destructive things that government can do. By the way, the US federal government passed another law that is very harmful to the banking sector recently, I think in the period before the 2010 election when the Democrats had full control over Congress and the Presidency. I have at least one clipping on this law and hope to post it here one day.

The USA is in a very similar situation but it has not advanced as far here yet, so please don't anyone think that I'm picking on foreigners in general or Europeans in particular.

We will not be able to stop attacking each other until we understand these issues.
1 "… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

2 "Is it not true you do not recognize some of the forms attack can take? … Attack in any form is equally destructive. … He may … justify his savagery with smiles as he attacks. … any form, however lovely and charitable it may seem to be …
OrEd.Tx.23.41-42

3 "I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

4 "All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

5 "To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

6 "This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

7 "[Satan] did not care if everyone gave lip service to the teachings of Jesus, just so long as no one tried to live them."
The Starseed Transmission, page 67

8 "Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

9 "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 10:29 pm:   

CUBA'S LADY OF VALOR

Friends,

I copied the article below from the op/ed page of Investor's Business Daily. One thing that I like about IBD is that it covers the rest of the world outside of the USA, especially Latin America.

As I have said often, the ego uses government as it's instrument for some huge proportion of the attack that the ego does. We are mistaken when we think this is true for hellholes like Cuba, North Korea, Iran, or Quadaffi's Libya, but not for the USA or western Europe. The lessons that can be learned from the hellholes are simply showing us more extreme examples of the ways that we are attacking ourselves in the western democracies. One theme is always consistent: more power in the hands of the government, less power in the hands of the individual citizen.

Using Desmond Tutu's analogy, there should be no doubt that in the case of the 75 dissidents arrested in Cuba's Black Spring of 2003, the government was the "elephant" and the individual dissidents were the mice – just as was the case in Tutu's apartheid South Africa.

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"Is it not true you do not recognize some of the forms attack can take? … Attack in any form is equally destructive. … He may … justify his savagery with smiles as he attacks. … any form, however lovely and charitable it may seem to be …
OrEd.Tx.23.41-42

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"[Satan] did not care if everyone gave lip service to the teachings of Jesus, just so long as no one tried to live them."
The Starseed Transmission, page 67

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart



source: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/588557/201110181856/Cubas-Lady- Of-Valor.htm

Cuba's Lady Of Valor

Posted 10/18/2011 06:56 PM ET

Freedom: Laura Pollan Toledo was a humble schoolteacher who led Cuba's defiant Ladies in White. She died Friday in Havana. But she left a legacy of untold courage that terrified Cuba's long-communist dictatorship.

As surely as the sun will rise, a day will come when Cuba is free of its 52-year Marxist nightmare. And when its history is written, it's likely to begin with the story of Laura Pollan Toledo, the wife of an arrested dissident who shined a light on the totalitarian nature of the regime for all the world to see.

Pollan was a founder of the Ladies in White, the noted group of dissidents' wives who silently walked in procession, wearing white and carrying gladiolus flowers. They attended Mass together at St. Rita's Church to pray for their husbands' return.

They never made public statements, but the Castro regime understood the power of their silent protest and its global impact. For that, they considered Pollan a threat.

Pollan and the others, mostly wives of 75 dissidents arrested in the Black Spring of 2003, were followed, insulted, harassed, threatened, beaten by mobs and menaced for silently witnessing to the truth about Cuba's lack of human freedom.

Pollan died in a Cuban hospital of dengue fever and a viral infection, in the end at the mercy of Cuba's collapsing state health system, refusing transfer to an elite medical facility as the publicity-nervous regime offered.

It's hard to imagine the courage that Pollan's simple act of witness took, in a regime that considers going to church a threat to the state.

In Castro's island hellhole, praised by the Hollywood and congressional left, free speech is forbidden. Calling for elections brings a knock on the door at midnight. Trying to leave the island brings prison — even death.

Yet amid this island prison just 90 miles from our shores, Pollan and her friends stood up for truth.

She died without seeing the free Cuba she longed for. Still, the pure flame of her courage changed Cuba in ways large and small, and helped set it on a path of ultimate liberation. RIP.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 01:16 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


EVERYONE: Yesterday Libyan rebels forces pursued, captured, tortured, and eventually killed Moammar Gadhafi. The forces were helped by intelligence from the U.S.A. government which had identified Gadhafi's fleeing, 80 car motorcade through intelligence gathered by an unmanned drone airplane.

Most of the world celebrates the end of a brutal dictatorship that sponsored terrorism. The largest Libyan terrorist attack was the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland on December 21, 1988. All 243 passengers and 16 crew members were killed. The destruction also included 21 homes in Lockerbie itself with 11 Lockerbie citizens left dead.

The final toppling of the Libyan dictatorship is seen as a victory for President Obama and his policy during the Libyan situation.

I watch the events and read the news stories with ambivalent ideas. I am glad a tyrannical dictatorship is over. I am hopeful that a democratic future will evolve for the people of Lybia.

Libya is a medium sized country, in the Northern part of Africa. It has a large Mediterranean Ocean border and is directly south of Italy and Greece. The population of Libya is about 6.6 million. Comparatively, that's less than the population of the larger San Francisco Bay Area I live in.

I see that in the last few years, through a lot of U.S.A. led intervention, many governments in the region have changed: Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya. More "change" is probably on the way. On May 1, 2011, Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S.A. military forces in Pakistan. On October 1, 2011 senior Al Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki was killed in Yemen. It's not been a good year for dictators and terrorists. Not lost in the reporting of this story is that Anwar al-Awlaki was a U.S.A. born American citizen. This American citizen may have been a violent, anti-American, terrorist – but what about due process of law and the highly held ideal that all people are presumed innocent until proven guilty? Please, I am not saying that the act of killing Anwar al-Awlaki was good or bad. I'm just trying to bring attention to the fact that certain Constitutional rights were challenged and that these issues still haven't been addressed and most likely won't be. By-the-way, I learned about these possible Constitutional rights violations from the main stream Liberal media, not the right wing Conservative media.

What disturbs me the most is the prurient interest of the mass of society for violent, brutal images of Gadhafi's capture, torture, and eventual death. Images of a bleeding, begging for mercy, dazed Gadhafi are all over the internet. There are also images of his dead body with apparent bullet wounds to the head and chest. I just read a news story the the final bullet that killed him was fired by a Libyan rebel wearing a Yankee baseball cap. To me this is a horrible image and again ties the U.S.A. into images of extreme government led and sanctioned, deathly violence.

In the midst of all the reporting, confusion, celebration, and worry about the future of Libya let us remember that the death of a dictator does not necessarily mean anything has happened.

"Many think this [knowing we will last forever] is accomplished through death, but nothing is accomplished through death because death is nothing." (OrEd.Tx.6.61)


"Nothing" happened in Libya yesterday with the killing of the body of Gadhafi. If "something" good comes of it - it will be because we, citizens of the Earth, choose to keep seeing sinless brothers and sisters all over the planet and because we continue to hold onto the idea of abundance as the divine right of all Earth citizens.

Thanks for listening.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 11:33 am:   

Bart,

Thank you, as always for sharing your thoughts and perceptions.
I think I do understand your perceptions about your knowing about finances from your past experiences.

Todays lesson, seems to be more in line with what I would want my communications to convey to you.

"All fear is past and only love is here." Lesson 293

I can imagine that some will read this as simplistic and relate only to the REAL World meanings upon which it appears to be predicated as directly connected to the topic WHAT is the REAL world. I imagine it is those sorts of communications you consider to be MO. I have heard many, too many for my comfort level, from students of ACIM, however, I do NOT believe that they have forgotten THE past nor THEIR past. I think they make the mistake I perceive is made my all and this lessons offers as correction about 'past fear" in the dark past examples as useful for seeing FUTURE LIGHT.

No where are we being told NOT to REMEMBER THE dark examples of THE past....WE ARE being repeatedly told TO REMEMBER what WE HAVE forgotten about the REAL world as the LIGHT of ALL future PERCEPTION. TRUE KNOWLEDGE.

The commentary appears to be a very cogent recognition for joining together the perceptions you personally share Bart and my own.

"I THINK of fear as RELATED to the future, yet here it says "ALL FEAR IS PAST." This MEANS more, I think, THAN THAT MY EXPERIENCES OF FEAR ARE ALL OVER. Understood THAT way it is almost WISHFUL THINKING. WHAT it seem to ACTUALLY MEAN IS THAT fear ITSELF IS in the PAST. Fear COMES from the past, it EXISTS in the PAST ONLY. WHEN the past is REAL to (little) me, and "ALL my past mistakes opppressing it" THEN I have fear (and only then). WHAT I FEAR IS THAT THE PAST DETERMINES THE FUTURE. IF my PAST is FILLED with mistakes and things of guilt, AND I consider it to be real, this generates my present fear of the future."
THE SOURCE of fear is making the past real in the present.
A. Watson and R. Perry. The entirety of this is of great value for practice of shifting perceptions. A Workbook Companion pgs 424-427.

Bart you wrote...."Any time we (I) recognize, or think we (I) recognize, an emotion in another person, it is possible that we might be projecting. It's always best if we bear this in mind. However, at the same time, we do need to give ourselves permission to recognize that other people do experience their own emotions, and sometimes we can recognize them. (My perception would be...Recognizing the emotion of other people is recognizing I feel love. My only purpose in recognizing the experience of others AS emotion is to relate to/with them in the MOMENT as recognition of their being, their presence. I am not given permission to interpret/translate what I recognize within myself as emotions of others. Especially if I am experiencing different emotions from THE other person AND I think, feel, experience negative-dark emotive perceptions. ACIM gives us all full permission to acknowledge OURSELVES in this as process of learning. I do NOT have permission to interpret or translate the emotional experience of another person. ONLY my own. Bart...you said "we do need to give ourselves permission to recognize that other people do experience their own emotions, and sometimes we can recognize them." For myself I would want you know my perception of that statement would differ in the following form...I GIVE myself permission to recognize that other people DO experience their OWN emotions. I SOMETIMES recognize them. I do NOT know WHAT others experience. I WANT to experience what THEY experience relating to their emotions. I will understand and accept them when I do NOT make choices for them without their permission.

You wrote..."What I want is to get out of attack and to help others get out of attack. Having recognized that we (I) are using government as a primary means of attack, and possibly as the means by which we (I) conduct the overwhelming majority of our attack, and that we (I) largely don't realize that we (I) are doing this, what I want is to use this discussion group to increase clarity on how we (I) are using government to attack, thereby enabling us to stop using government to attack."

The ACIM premise of attack as you write appears as a dark example of a call for a MIRACLE and practice of todays lesson "ALL fear IS PAST AND LOVE IS HERE." The use of the word symbol WE, includes me in what you, Bart WANT. You have made an assumption I WANT the perception you present as your own about attack related to government. I DO NOT WANT to share that perception of government. AND, for me personally, such perceptions feed the fears of the past in the present and do NOT appear as healing for the future at this PRESENT moment.

I think I understand your thinking that stating your perception..."What I want is to get out of attack and to help others get out of attack." IS the thesis as ACIM is asking US to practice. I would WANT for you to consider that the other perceptions are of your own mind and as such they are projections. Perhaps unrecognized? Perhaps mistakenly offered as confusion about helping others relate to attack AND the lesson of the day?

"ALL fear is PAST and ONLY Love is HERE."

The past IS THE SOURCE of FEAR....fear is attack. The dark examples of the past ARE dark examples OF the PAST. ACIM asks us to REMEMBER the dark examples of the past IN ORDER to also REMEMBER WHAT seems in the dream to have been forgotten. Using the memories from our dark past experiences, with practice, we CAN choose a MIRACLE in the PRESENT AND the FUTURE WILL BE created in LIGHT.

Bart you also wrote..."I think that it is very important that we use these examples. As the quote that Maz has posted shows, ACIM wants us to see contrasts so that we can improve our understanding. ACIM also tells us that "all things are lessons God would have me learn" (OrEd.WkBk.193 title). This means that the tragedies of the Nazis and the Khmer Rouge and the other Communists hold lessons that "God would have [us] learn". We can be sure we won't learn those lessons if we prohibit ourselves from looking at those events. We can be sure we won't learn those lessons if we prohibit ourselves from seeing the similarities between those events and our present lives. ACIM also tells us that all things are for our best interest (search about workbook lesson 25 to find this, I'm working from memory). How do you reconcile the Khmer Rouge with anyone's best interest?"

You "think it is VERY important that YOU use these examples" to express your perceptions of the similarities for you in the PRESENT. WE are NOT ever asked in ACIM to forget the dark examples AND it is NOT my perception we are being asked to USE these dark examples as similar to PRESENT perceptions. Quite the opposite we are actually given permission to SHIFT OUR PERCEPTIONS NOW for healing the FUTURE with NOT USING those dark examples but rather remembering them as lessons learned. THEN discuss the PRESENT as a learned ONE offering healed perceptions as the related link for KNOWING....

"ALL FEAR is PAST and ONLY Love IS HERE." ACIM asks we teach ONE another the TRUTH is there is NO FUTURE. Any discussion of the future is projection pure and simple. There is NO fruit on that tree.

There is great value Bart in what I think you are posing and is of the teaching/learning of ACIM. The PAST is the SOURCE of FEAR. NOW is ALL there IS. RELATING similar perceptions of the dark past to NOW is keeping THE illusion fear sourced from past experience and examples, not the worldly experiential reality, will heal the dark perceptions. ONLY LIGHT WILL HEAL.

Thank you as always for the inspiration and the relating. I appreciate when you share of your personal perceptions and I can practice. You constantly remind me to practice... I can NEVER know the INTENTION of the author. I give myself permission to recognize their perceptions, emotions AND am grateful to also give myself permission to recognize the IMPACT I experience and choose to relate. My own dark past experiences were of fear. NOW ONLY LOVE is here in this MOMENT. I have NO knowledge of the future and therefore my peace may again be disrupted by a fearful experience. ACIM has taught me to speak of NOW as now rather than relating NOW to similarity with the dark fearful experiences I learned were not helpful to me or others.

You pose..."How do you reconcile the Khmer Rouge with anyone's best interest?"

There IS NO reconciling such a dark, fearful terrifying past example NOW. There is NO value in using the example to call attention to similarity with NOW relating to the future. That IS HOW I personally reconcile my own and the interest of my Brothers and Sisters.
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 07:59 am:   

Good Morning Friends,
 
 
BART: " ...you...have raised concerns about using dark examples from the past, such as Hitler and other dictators. I think that it is very important that we use these examples. As the quote that Maz has posted shows, ACIM wants us to see contrasts so that we can improve our understanding. ACIM also tells us that "all things are lessons God would have me learn" (OrEd.WkBk.193 title). This means that the tragedies of the Nazis and the Khmer Rouge and the other Communists hold lessons that "God would have [us] learn". We can be sure we won't learn those lessons if we prohibit ourselves from looking at those events."
 
First of all thank you for this great thread and discussion. I just want to jump in with a quick sharing of an observation.
 
For some time there seemed to be a rather irresolvable dilemma: Some sort of level confusion which led me (and others) to think along the lines of 'If you spot it, you got it!'. This, of course, was justified with core teachings such as "projection makes perception"(ACIM). This resulted in some ostrich policy, giving the teaching 'out of sight, out of mind' almost a magical meaning. Much like covering one's eyes and pretending that the world is gone just because one doesn't look at it.
 
We are consistently told that the healed or unified perception which is offered to us by the Holy Spirit sees beyond error to the truth, or to the solution of every situation, thereby not making the error real. It is quite easy to mistake this dynamic as saying that error should be disregarded or evaded, as in 'don't mention it!', and that every recognition of error would mean that we necessarily make it real. But is not Jesus constantly explaining the upside-down thoughtsystem and its effects to us, so we can learn to employ the very same perception as he does, IOW collaborate in healing and correction? As an example, see this passage from the ur-typescript (2nd Cardinal version):
 
211.(..). Jesus: "One of the more horrible examples of inverted or upside down thinking (and history is full of horrible examples of this) is the fact that the Nazis spelled their appalling error with capitol letters. I shed many tears over this, but it is by no means the only time I said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." 212. All actions which stem from reverse thinking are literally the behavioral expressions of those who know not what they do." (numbered re-typing par. 211-212) 
 
The question, then, is: Is Jesus somehow making the error real? There was an uproar among students when they were first exposed to Jesus stating in his Course that he shed many tears over the holocaust. 'How could that be? Jesus as the representation of the Holy Spirit is not seeing error but beyond it. Jesus would never shed tears!'  This, to my knowledge, is an unfortunate defense based on the fear that we could possible keep mis-creating error by some form of acknowledgment of errors. On the other hand, without the recognition of lack of love, how could we ever be willing to invite the miracle that will provide the Love the fear thought was lacking?
 
We easily notice that Jesus is not judging the ones engaging in such enormous error in his observation, and further, he is perfectly demonstrating a lesson he keeps repeating over and over so that it becomes a habit in how we choose to respond to errors of any kind: He is handing it over to the Higher Authority in order to strengthen forgiveness and healing. He instructs us very specifically along the same lines here:
 
OrEd.Tx.4.52 "It has never really entered your mind to give up every idea you ever had that OPPOSES knowledge. You retain thousands of little scraps of meanness which prevent the Holy One from entering. Light cannot penetrate through the walls you make to block it, and it is forever unwilling to destroy what you have made. No one can see THROUGH a wall, but I can step around it. Watch your minds for the scraps of meanness or you will be unable to ask me to do so. I can help you only as our Father created us. I will love you and honor you and maintain complete respect for what you have made, but I will neither honor it nor love it unless it is true."
 
I remember a discussion on another board where the "MO" approach was the official party-line. One would take "My thoughts don't mean anything" (WkBk) and take the ball all through the field, so to speak. "What is the same cannot be different" was also used to engage in some form of indifferent relativism. When I offered a different viewpoint, much like above, and objected to this "magical solution" which essentially says that an ice cream booth and a contration camp are "all the same", and to the notion that because I give everything the meaning that it has for me I should see only Love in the holocaust, I got banned and shunned from the discussion. I felt the need to object and also to ask for some level discernment unless the Course would be reduced to mindless magic with no effect at all.
 
In those days, a Dutch extreme right wing politician had gained many votes with anti-Islamic hate speech and ultra-right political views. His positions are widely recognized as some form of neo-nazi propaganda. The sheer mentioning of that led to public statements on that Course list (if you spot it you got it) about "MAZI-NAZI all the same". My reading of the warning signs warranted a judgment that it must be myself who is the neo-nazi. Historically, 2 years later, it was shown that the heavily confused Norwegian who killed 70 plus fellow humans in one strike is a devoted supporter of said Dutch politician and is heavily influenced by the likes of him. However, and IMHO, its an interesting and very important task for the miracle worker to practice level discernment and to avoid magical thinking (= attempting to reconcile the irreconcilable). IOW Love does not equal lack of love by some magical mantra saying "I see only Love, so that war, genocide, attack etc is really Love. I just have to see it right."
 
On a side note: I asked Luus yesterday what she means by "sharing everything with everyone" and referred to said politician, ie. the thoughtsystems that have a completely confused idea about what is to be shared, and by whom.
 
The next thing I wanted to mention is that on a different level, the dilemma can look quite differently. Its the level of psychology and human ontology. There we must conclude that "attack" has a much broader meaning than just bodies attacking bodies. Jesus makes it clear that only bodies can attack - minds are incapable of attack in the most rudimentary, physical sense. But there is a psychological level, and there we find that 'attack' is the very by-product - or even the basis - of perception in the broadest sense. IOW as long as we perceive, we are attacking, since perception rests on the duality of perceiver and perceived, of concrete application and judgment, selection and evaluation by the mind, which mind is totally abstract in its natural state. So, on this level we have to deal with the fact that wrong-minded perception, which is based on projection of specific preferences and judgment, is always involving a form of attack.
 
The solution to this dilemma, of course, is the only alternative: Healed or unified perception. This is given us by Grace and on invitation only. It is not forced upon us. It is part of the Atonement and part of the answer which is given us by our Father. It is the function of the Holy Spirit and without His help we have no way to perceive without any attack. This unified perception indeed leads to overlooking error, knowing it is unreal. But it doesn't stop short of inviting a miracle, acknowledging that something has gone wrong here. And this recognition of the effects of an upside-down thoughtsystem predicated on attack does NOT reinforce error or reinforce attack. The opposite is true: it invites correction from the bottom-up, instead of looking for a quick fix 'one-size-fits-all' top-down solution by magic and level confusion. I think the "MO" school likes to declare everything illusion and relative in order to then claim Godhood for oneself and keeping real joining and surrender of true authority to where it belongs at an arm's length.
 
Finally, this teaching has really served to open my eyes, too, in this regard, stating that the effects of our mis-creative use of mind are not magically wiped away in our minds, although the Atonement is long completed outside of time. But due to our creative abilities we were able to mis-create with much power, the power of Sons of God. And because of free will we need to collaborate in the undoing of this mis-creation and make our willingness known to receive and give forgiveness, invite and foster correction through miracles and train our minds to not repeat the same errors again. In the Text it is stated:
 
OrEd.Tx.3.74  "The whole picture is one in which man acts in a way he HIMSELF realizes is self-destructive but which he does not choose to correct and therefore perceives the cause as beyond his control. We have discussed the fall, or separation, before, but its meaning must be clearly understood without symbols. The separation is not symbolic. It is an order of reality or a system of thought that is real enough in time, though NOT in eternity. All beliefs are real to the believer."
 
At another instance we learn that what is not symbolic is fact. The Holy Spirit, however, is said to be symbolic, the separation is said NOT to be symbolic. As this is getting rather lengthy, I will probably address this in another post some day. To me it was very important to ask for guidance on those matters because my mind too still engages in level confusion and magical thinking, although I experience more clarity and more often the 'nudge' from the Holy Spirit when I am doing so. That way I can "pause" (an instruction occurring up to 20 times in the whole Course) and choose again. In summary, I think its most important in our discussions to strive to define our terms plus the level on which we are discussing and using those terms. I found this to be a worthwhile exercise with much more benefits than down-sides. Although I must acknowledge that for some fellow students this is an idea which is as attractive to them as pulling teeth. :-)
 
Happy trails, in Peace,
 
maz
 

 
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 01:34 am:   

Christine,

In response to yours of October 17, 2011 at 11:40. You posted at Personal Shares but I'm responding here as this is the thread where the topics that I'm responding to originated.

First, I did attribute the emotion of rage to Marianne Williamson, and you did raise the possibility that I am projecting. This is always a possibility. Any time we recognize, or think we recognize, an emotion in another person, it is possible that we might be projecting. It's always best if we bear this in mind. However, at the same time, we do need to give ourselves permission to recognize that other people do experience their own emotions, and sometimes we can recognize them. To do otherwise would be to take the path of the MO school -- zombie state of mind, nothing makes any sense, there is no practical application. To illustrate my point, what would happen to our lives if we never allowed ourselves to recognize any emotion in any other person, because if we did so we might be projecting?

Second, you asked at least once, but I think actually twice, what solutions I want. Thank you for asking. Here's the answer that I gave to Maria in an email last night:
I have not posted much with regards to solutions. I have posted about some of the major causes, which are debt, transfer payments, government retirement programs, minimum wage laws, criminalization of hiring, and government advantage in education. Another problem is simply electing people who are clearly profoundly unsuited to hold office. I have mentioned all of these things as ways in which we attack each other, resulting in situations such as our current problems. I have not gone into much detail on any of them yet. Part of the solution has to be ending all of these actions, or almost all of them.

The solutions actually involve a wide range of specific policies that need to be ended and a handful of specific policies that need to be implemented. They also involve the way that we use government in general.

The answers are not simple and quick. It will take time. It took me many years to get to the point of understanding that I am at now. I can boil it down, but even boiling it down will require many posts over a period of many weeks.

However since you are truly looking for answers, I would recommend that you re-read the posts that I have made so far on the government and politics thread just in order to get a deeper understanding of what I have written so far. Obviously it's best if you read them in chronological order.


Third, you repeatedly bring up the topic of what we WANT. I think this is very important and I thank you for doing so. ACIM asks us to ask that question of ourselves. I stated my reason (what I want) for starting this thread early on. I am happy to restate it as often as I can. What I want is to get out of attack and to help others get out of attack. Having recognized that we are using government as a primary means of attack, and possibly as the means by which we conduct the overwhelming majority of our attack, and that we largely don't realize that we are doing this, what I want is to use this discussion group to increase clarity on how we are using government to attack, thereby enabling us to stop using government to attack.

Fourth, both you and Tony have raised concerns about using dark examples from the past, such as Hitler and other dictators. I think that it is very important that we use these examples. As the quote that Maz has posted shows, ACIM wants us to see contrasts so that we can improve our understanding. ACIM also tells us that "all things are lessons God would have me learn" (OrEd.WkBk.193 title). This means that the tragedies of the Nazis and the Khmer Rouge and the other Communists hold lessons that "God would have [us] learn". We can be sure we won't learn those lessons if we prohibit ourselves from looking at those events. We can be sure we won't learn those lessons if we prohibit ourselves from seeing the similarities between those events and our present lives. ACIM also tells us that all things are for our best interest (search about workbook lesson 25 to find this, I'm working from memory). How do you reconcile the Khmer Rouge with anyone's best interest? Is it beyond our ability to stretch to consider that maybe on some grand cosmic scale those millions of people went through that tragedy in order to create such an "extreme example" (would love reference from ACIM for this one from anybody) that other people in other places and times could use it in order to learn from it. Is it possible that we can make the world better by studying the differences and similarities between what they did and what is happening now? I for one intend to use any tool that I can get my hands on to help heal the world. I think we can connect some dots and speculate that it would be useful to accept the tremendous sacrifices of those dark times and places as providing us with a contrast that we can learn from. Certainly trying to hide them away from our consciousness and not look at them is contrary to all that ACIM teaches about bringing the darkness to the light. If we never learn any lessons from those times, from all that suffering, then we dishonor them by not making some helpful use of their sacrifice. If we can use their example to learn and grow so that we make the world better, at least it gives more meaning to their lives and their deaths. At any rate, I will continue to use those examples whether people object or not.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - 02:20 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


MAZ & EVERYONE: Maz posted something on this thread about me shutting off posting on the "General Discussions About The Entire Book" thread. However, most of you are NOT members of the "ACIM Original Edition Corrections Discussion" group so you don't know what he was talking about. A thread on that discussion group was sending out spam advertising messages so I shut off the "Post a Message" function on that thread for a short time to see if that stops it.

Maz, I've addressed this issue on that group so check the messages from that group. I will move your objection post over to that discussion group. Checking the IP address from the spams will not help because it is our own web site that is sending the messages, because the messages are generated from a form on our web site itself.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - 11:14 am:   

Hi Bart,

You wrote..."One thing that is obvious about this movement is that it is taking place because thousands of people think that there is either a problem, or a set of problems. Another thing that is obvious about the movement is that there is a lot of emotion but a distinct lack of clarity about exactly what the problem is, what the causes are, and what the solutions are. The use of logic, reason, and knowledge would start by recognizing that people feel like there is a problem, and then trying to identify exactly what the problem is...

The economic environment of the late 1990s was universally celebrated as the economic "best of all possible worlds". The economic environment of today gives rise to a worldwide protest movement, a financial crisis that we can all read about in the papers every day, and widespread economic hardship that is objectively observable in the economic statistics and in society. However, we can observe no discernable change in greed, corporations, sharing, or disparity of pay rates between the "best of all possible worlds" of the 1990s and the protest-worthy environment that we have today. That leads me to agree, apparently with Jesus, that greed, corporations, sharing, or disparity of pay rates are not the problem or the cause of the problem."

AND in counterpoint later wrote..."

"I was critical of Marianne Williamson's speech, but I did write this about it: " She did a good job of boiling down the problems that we have in terms of the human element of it." As I think about her speech, the one thing that keeps coming back to my mind is her statement about people "who can't find jobs no matter how hard they try". This is a true statement. Marianne has clearly identified the problem. I want to point out that just a few years ago we had the exact opposite situation, at least in the USA. Employment was so tight that it was virtually impossible for employers to find qualified employees. I am an employer, and I know other employers, and I can tell you that a few years ago in the USA, anyone who had graduated from high school, could pass a drug test, would show up for work on time some days, and would have some days where they wouldn't steal from the corporation could get multiple offers for a job at $14 or $15 per hour within a few days of starting to look for a job. And now people can't find jobs no matter how qualified they are and how hard they look and how long they look. I think this is a better identification of the problem than "greed" or "corporations" or "lack of equality" or "lack of sharing".

You, Bart, share with us... You know what is obvious about this movement. You use logic, reason, and knowledge by recognizing feeling like there is a problem and then identify exactly what the problem is. There are many things obvious about the movement to you.

You perceive the economic environment of the late 1990s was universally celebrated as the economic "best of all possible worlds".

You read, observe no discernable change in greed, corporations, sharing, or disparity of pay rates between the "best of all possible worlds" of the 1990s and the protest-worthy environment that we have today. You agree, apparently with Jesus, that greed, corporations, sharing, or disparity of pay rates are not the problem or the cause of the problem."

For you, the one thing that keeps coming back to your mind is her statement about people "who can't find jobs no matter how hard they try". This is a true statement. You agree there are problems.

You are an employer. You point out employment was so tight that it was virtually impossible for employers to find qualified employees. I am an employer, and I know other employers, and I can tell you that a few years ago in the USA, anyone who had graduated from high school, could pass a drug test, would show up for work on time some days, and would have some days where they wouldn't steal from the corporation could get multiple offers for a job at $14 or $15 per hour within a few days of starting to look for a job. And now people can't find jobs no matter how qualified they are and how hard they look and how long they look.

You think employees-behaviors are a better identification of the problem than "greed" or "corporations" or "lack of equality" or "lack of sharing".

You, Bart, Tony, Maria, Luus, Barbara, Judy, Robert Perry, etc...ALL Brothers and Sisters, are pointing out many excellent little world examples of WHAT ACIM tells us would best be taken to THE HS for help of possible re-perception. Asking HS to help us choose the worldly perception of LOVE to us word symbols as Miracle Workers healing the little world WITH little minds capable of SEEING the SYMBOL of the REAL world as worthy of choice relating to our little world as our little selves. Seems like WHAT Jesus is telling me to do AND there is even HOW TO DO IT in the Course.

"The (little) mind DETERMINES WHICH world we see. With the help of the Holy Spirit we CAN choose WHAT we WANT to see, AND we WILL see IT. The world we ARE looking at MAY or may NOT HAVE CHANGED, BUT the INTERPRETATION WE (our Christ minded Higher Self) put upon it WILL have done a 190. NO longer WILL we see any of the vast variety of forms of fear THE ego has and does invent; in their place (little) we WILL see NOTHING BUT LOVE, OR the CALL FOR LOVE. NO-THING (little) we see will call for condemnation and punishment. EVERYTHING WE-Christ MINDS SEE WILL CALL ONLY FOR LOVE"....A Workbook Companion by Allen Watson and Robert Perry pg. 423.

What a blessing to have ALL of you as MIGHTY Companions. I find myself feeling love in my practice. My ego has NO perception of learning! However, my ego will NOT experience LOVE when I choose the word symbols of my little mind rather than those offered to me and spoken as those of MY Christ MIND.

The caveat seems to be PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE relating as Brothers and Sisters in the world NOT of THE REAL WORLD!


Yesterday the lessons progressed and the topic is WHAT is the REAL World followed by 291-300. Maz's"pseudo-questions" to Luus had me thinking about the relationship of his queries to/with WHAT is THE REAL World and yesterday's lesson. Todays adds tremendous value to this discussion.

WHAT is the THE REAL World?
"THE REAL World is A SYMBOL like the rest of what PERCEPTION offers. YET IT stands for what is OPPOSITE to what (little) you made. Your (little) world IS seen through eyes of fear (ego perception) and brings WITNESSESS of terror to your (little-ego) mind. THE REAL World canNOT BE perceived EXCEPT through EYES FORGIVENESS blesses, SO they (little ego eyes) SEE a (little) world where terror IS IMPOSSIBLE and witnessess to fear can NOT be found."

The writings of our worldly Brothers Allen Watson and Robert Perry A Workbook Companion rather understandable give their personal comments on WHAT is THE REAL world and the lessons.

The explanations they offer in these readings answers query of separation pertaining to the little world created by the little mind AND THE REAL World of God. The Workbook is very clear and direct...."The world IS a SYMBOL like the rest of WHAT perception offers." The world world is A SYMBOL, EITHER of fear or LOVE....Jesus tells me so!

Maz, yesterday I began to put on paper some of my thoughts about your query of EGO TEACHING. I was thinking of it as point counterpoint. I admit to feeling fearful that you wold perceive any reply possibly as argumentative so I chose to seek guidance over the past 24 hrs. Luus succinctly states also, part of my perception, using a simple Course quote. Thanks Luus for clearing my little mind for a Holy Instant!

Maz, I do wish to share these my thoughts of EGO Teaching...Also, I found great value from reading A Workbook Companion by Allen Watson and Robert Perry pgs 419-423 for clarity of other Brothers appearing similar to my own little mind thoughts of EGO teaching.

From yesterday,
Maz
You appear to be quite curious this day. I read many queries of our Sister Luus. I find myself being curious about your curiosity and particularly drawn in this moment to...

Maz..."So, who is teaching the ego, and, more precisely,
who is the teacher of your ego?"

As I understand "ego" there is NO teacher. EGO IS. Ego it could be said is a creation NOT of God and therefore, according to ACIM NOT real, an illusion of fear. Thoughts of the little mind's perception of the world calling for correction, an opportunity to practice taking those little mind thoughts to the HS for re-perception for peace of the little mind, etc. What I personally choose as my salvation ......LEARNING that when I forgive my ego for the purpose of creating LOVE I have no need for query of "teaching" related to ego. It actually for me seems counterintuitive.

Teaching of the ego would appear to require attention to those misperceptive thoughts of my little mind. I am offered an immediate opportunity for correction in taking them to HS for re-perception before speaking them as word symbols. As such taking the time to teach the ego will naturally take time away from learning, experiencing Miracle's with you and all of blessed Brothers and Sisters of this world.


Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucia van Leeuwen (Luus)
Username: Luus

Registered: 08-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - 03:08 am:   

Maz wrote:
"LUUS:
I have a couple of questions. You also wrote:
"...you make such an effort to prove your points, but as far as I can see that's all ego. What needs to be done is share and politicians and the people all over the world need to change their minds and unite and become willing to share everything."

So, who is teaching the ego, and, more precisely,
who is the teacher of your ego?

"Only then will we become as one and the world will be a happy place: HEAVEN. There needs to be more love."

Who is it that sees lack of love, the need for more love?

Who is the "we" that is 'becoming one', and which
world are you talking about, the physical world
or the real world?

What does the Course say about Heaven and is it a really a "place"?

As I am not familiar with neither WoM nor Heavenletters,
I am also curious to know who or what is meant by
"And God says...."?
Who is that "God" who teaches about lack of love?

thanks for you rhelp,

namazte

To which I can only reply:
"A pseudo-question has no answer. It dictates the answer even as it asks." (OrEd.Tx.27.37)

Love,
Luus
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 08:46 pm:   

Hello Everyone,

Just sharing a quote with you: "Thomas Jefferson once said:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -- Thomas Jefferson -- The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809)

Interesting, isn't it? This is exactly what I perceive happening to society today...I must keep on practicing, must heal my perception. It appears to me, as if history does repeat itself.

I guess history will keep on repeating itself until WE/I get it right. Hmmmmmm...I've begun to understand what it is that "Bart" is saying about, education...The only way I will be able to make a difference is by understanding how our "collectively" made up world operates. Seeing the Christ in everyone, with the intention to understand humanity better.:-)

I have never been interested in politics/finances, but about a week ago a friend sent me an e-mail about "Occupy Wall Street" it called my attention, and I began to read about it...and now I'm following the peaceful movement very closely. I am informing myself, on both sides of the coin...I feel humanity is taking the veil off their eyes...Light will prevail. I feel as if WE(I am) are entering a higher level of awareness, even the vibrational frequency feels to be higher now a days. It is a happy feeling, therefore it is coming from love.

Thank you Bart for being a GREAT teacher!!!

Peace,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 06:43 pm:   

1240. To heal, then, is to correct perception in your brother AND yourself by sharing the Holy Spirit with him. This places you both WITHIN the Kingdom and restores ITS wholeness in your minds. This PARALLELS creation because it UNIFIES BY INCREASING, and INTEGRATES BY EXTENDING.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 03:52 pm:   

Maz,

You wrote on on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 07:51 am:

LUUS:

I have a couple of questions. You also wrote:

"...you make such an effort to prove your points, but as far as I can see that's all ego. What needs to be done is share and politicians and
the people all over the world need to change their minds and unite and become willing to share everything." So, who is teaching the ego, and, more precisely, who is the teacher of your ego?

"Only then will we become as one and the world will be a happy place: HEAVEN. There needs to be more love."

Who is it that sees lack of love, the need for more love?

Who is the "we" that is 'becoming one', and which world are you talking about, the physical world
or the real world?

What does the Course say about Heaven and is it a really a "place"?

As I am not familiar with neither WoM nor Heavenletters, I am also curious to know who or what is meant by "And God says...."?

Who is that "God" who teaches about lack of love?

thanks for you rhelp,

(Your post is self explanatory, and simple, only that I do not get your point. Could you please elaborate a bit more on what it is that you are asking Luus, for me to understand you a bit better?)

Thank you,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 02:36 pm:   

Hello Everyone,

Bart, I simply love this quote: "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." Desmond Tutu

I see the one 1% as the elephant and the protesters as the mouse that the elephant is stepping on its tail. As an ACIM student, I am sending healing thoughts to all, even to the 1%, because I feel that US here in the illusion do not know what "WE" do... just my thoughts.

Also I see that you are focusing on your predictions and how they are happening now...I got that. What could be done to solve the seemingly problems that are going on with Society as a whole, TODAY?

If you have posted the solution please forgive me for asking again. Could you re-post it for me one more time?

I firmly believe "GREED" among us is part of the the seeming difficulties we are experiencing in society as a whole. I could give examples of this so called GREED that is not found in ACIM...If I recall correct, Jesus from the four Gospels, was not fond of tax collectors either. Our Government seems to be part of the 1%. Just my thoughts, based on worldly information. I am perceiving a wonderful change happening. I perceive this PEACEFUL movement as an awakening period for humanity. This is not about vengeance, hate or politics. I see it as JUSTICE for ONE and for ALL. :-)

Peace,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 01:28 pm:   

IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM

Friends,

I wrote the following in my post of Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 09:49 pm:
"… the ACIM movement needs more "Spock" – more knowledge, logic, reason, intelligence, and analysis. I would say the same thing about our society as a whole. Emotion won't get us out of our current problems. It was a lack of knowledge, logic, reason, intelligence, and analysis that got us into these problems, and only attainment and application of these qualities will get us out of our problems. I will mention, as I have done before, that it is only by shifting out of our egos and into our right minds that we will be able to attain and use those mental facilities."

We've been discussing the Occupy Wall Street movement. One thing that is obvious about this movement is that it is taking place because thousands of people think that there is either a problem, or a set of problems. Another thing that is obvious about the movement is that there is a lot of emotion but a distinct lack of clarity about exactly what the problem is, what the causes are, and what the solutions are. The use of logic, reason, and knowledge would start by recognizing that people feel like there is a problem, and then trying to identify exactly what the problem is.

As I have continued to read about the problem, a few things that come up repeatedly are corporations are the problem, greed is the problem, disparities in wealth and income are the problem, and government is the problem. Luus identified "sharing" as the solution, which implies that lack of sharing must be the problem.

The email that Maria posted at Synchronistic Inspirations clearly identified one problem: "greed". So let's start with that. I searched ACIM for the word "greed", and found that it never showed up – not even one time – in ACIM. So it appears that Jesus has no interest in greed as a problem or as a basic causative factor in our problems. I think we would find the same results if we searched ACIM for references to corporations or to disparities in wealth and income.

The economic environment of the late 1990s was universally celebrated as the economic "best of all possible worlds". The economic environment of today gives rise to a worldwide protest movement, a financial crisis that we can all read about in the papers every day, and widespread economic hardship that is objectively observable in the economic statistics and in society. However, we can observe no discernable change in greed, corporations, sharing, or disparity of pay rates between the "best of all possible worlds" of the 1990s and the protest-worthy environment that we have today. That leads me to agree, apparently with Jesus, that greed, corporations, sharing, or disparity of pay rates are not the problem or the cause of the problem.

I was critical of Marianne Williamson's speech, but I did write this about it: " She did a good job of boiling down the problems that we have in terms of the human element of it." As I think about her speech, the one thing that keeps coming back to my mind is her statement about people "who can't find jobs no matter how hard they try". This is a true statement. Marianne has clearly identified the problem. I want to point out that just a few years ago we had the exact opposite situation, at least in the USA. Employment was so tight that it was virtually impossible for employers to find qualified employees. I am an employer, and I know other employers, and I can tell you that a few years ago in the USA, anyone who had graduated from high school, could pass a drug test, would show up for work on time some days, and would have some days where they wouldn't steal from the corporation could get multiple offers for a job at $14 or $15 per hour within a few days of starting to look for a job. And now people can't find jobs no matter how qualified they are and how hard they look and how long they look. I think this is a better identification of the problem than "greed" or "corporations" or "lack of equality" or "lack of sharing".

Having identified the problem, and also having recognized that the exact opposite situation existed just a few years ago, the next logical, rational thing to do is to search for the causes of the problem. I've written enough for today, but I can tell you that over the upcoming weeks I will try to show you that the causes of the problems are mostly due to 1) direct government action, and 2) failure of government to play it's proper role in society. In other words, to a large extent we are inflicting this trauma upon each other by the roles that we play as voters in democracies. All of which leads me back to my original starting point in this thread: that government is one of the main tools that we use to attack each other, and we have to start to understand how we are doing this in order to stop attacking each other, and that obtaining this understanding and stopping the overt attack that we are doing through our involvement (or lack thereof) in politics is an essential part of this spiritual path for those of us who live in democracies.

When you see an unemployed person who can't find work and can't earn income to feed his family, consider the possibility that his situation is created and enforced by the power of democracy, using government's police with their numbers and guns, and the courts and prisons to back them up, to create the environment in which no one is hiring him. Raw emotions, especially the anger of the Occupy Wall Street movement, will not lead us to the point at which we understand how we are doing this so that we can stop doing this. If we start from a position of love we will go down the path of gathering knowledge and using logic and reason so that we can make things better.

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"Is it not true you do not recognize some of the forms attack can take? … Attack in any form is equally destructive. … He may … justify his savagery with smiles as he attacks. … any form, however lovely and charitable it may seem to be …
OrEd.Tx.23.41-42

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"[Satan] did not care if everyone gave lip service to the teachings of Jesus, just so long as no one tried to live them."
The Starseed Transmission, page 67

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 07:51 am:   

LUUS:

I have a couple of questions. You also wrote:

"...you make such an effort to prove your points, but as far as I can see that's all ego. What needs to be done is share and politicians and the people all over the world need to change their minds and unite and become willing to share everything."

So, who is teaching the ego, and, more precisely,
who is the teacher of your ego?

"Only then will we become as one and the world will be a happy place: HEAVEN. There needs to be more love."

Who is it that sees lack of love, the need for more love?

Who is the "we" that is 'becoming one', and which
world are you talking about, the physical world
or the real world?

What does the Course say about Heaven and is it a really a "place"?

As I am not familiar with neither WoM nor Heavenletters,
I am also curious to know who or what is meant by
"And God says...."?
Who is that "God" who teaches about lack of love?

thanks for you rhelp,

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 03:22 pm:   

Luus,

IRT yours of 03:36 AM today. You wrote, "Bart you make such an effort to prove your points, but as far as I can see that's all ego."

I was thinking, "of the three posts, which part does Luus think is coming from my ego?" Before I checked back and found out that you said it was all coming from my ego, it occurred to me that maybe you felt like I was bragging in the two cases where I posted emails in which I had predicted in advance the current situations. I can understand where perhaps someone might get the impression that I was just bragging.

The point of posting the old emails was to show that it IS possible to identify specific causes (in the illusion of time-space-matter-bodies) for the specific problems that we are experiencing (in the illusion of time-space-matter-bodies). If enough people understand the cause and effect relationships with regards to economics, finance, and government, then we can implement solutions and avoid hardships. If not enough people understand the cause and effect relationships, then we find ourselves unable to implement solutions and avoid hardships. Making these kinds of connections between causes and effects is a right mind function, the sort of thing that the Holy Spirit is trying to get us to do. As you have seen from the various quotes from ACIM that I have often pasted at the bottom of my posts on this thread, the ego is unable to see cause and effect connections. This is natural because the ego survives on conflict and trauma and is unable to undertake healing, and when you can't see cause and effect relationships in the illusion of time-space-matter-bodies you get conflict and trauma and you don't get healing. Getting back to the point of my posts, the point was not to brag. It should be clear that if you can explain what is going to happen in the future as a result of the current conditions, as I did and as I illustrated by my emails, then you understand the cause and effect relationships. It should be equally clear that if professionals in the field of finance, economics, and government claim to understand the cause and effects relationships but consistently fail in their efforts to explain what is going to happen in the future as a result of the current causes, then they do not in fact understand the cause and effect relationships that exist and are doing overt harm to the public by giving the impression that they do understand.

I will also point out that I didn't figure out any of the things that I predicted. I learned it all by reading the works of the tiny minority of economics and finance professionals who actually do understand the cause and effect relationships that exist in economics and finance.

As a sidebar I will mention that in the middle of the 1990s, maybe about 1995, I realized that when the crises ultimately arose that the common theme among mainstream economists, politicians, and financial professionals would be "no one saw this coming". So about that time I started clipping out articles and advisories that explained it all and showed that the outcomes that we are now experiencing would in fact result if we continued taking the actions that we were in fact taking. I saved a small portion, maybe 5% or 10%, of what I read that explained what would happen. By early in the decade of the 2000s the file was about four inches thick and I more or less quit adding to it.

Getting back to whether I am coming from my ego or not, Jesus tells us that we can "tell by their fruits" whether we are coming from the ego or from the Holy Spirit. I and a tiny minority of others in economics and finance took a certain path of learning and then trying to explain the cause and effect relationships in economics and finance so that we could all avoid the problems that we now have. 99.9% of the professionals in these fields took the other path, the path of avoiding the learning and saying nothing about the problems that would result. The fruits of their path are now becoming apparent. The fruits of my path are that everyone who listened to us was able to protect themselves and their families, and now they are in a position to help everyone else by educating them. If more people had taken this path then the fruits would be that we would be experiencing economic and financial stability and prosperity, but not enough of us did take that path to yield that outcome. If you think that those results are is ego fruits, well, that's you opinion and you're free to hold it.

I will also point out that my main means of educating was in monthly letters to my customers that were attached to their monthly statements. Now I ask you to consider what would have happened in the world if with every bank statement, every brokerage statement, etc. that you and everyone else had received every month starting in about 1995, your financial professionals had said explained what was going to happen and how as a society we had to get on a different path in order to avoid tragic outcomes. And if every day the business pages of the newspapers had explained. And if all the economics and finance professors at universities had explained. And if all the CF0s and CEOs of major corporations had explained. And if the leaders of the central banks and the treasury departments had explained. My staff kept telling me to ease up and that it wasn't my responsibility to be educating anyone. They told me that we were losing customers because my clients didn't want to hear about it. The cost to my firm and to myself personally was significant. But I did it because it was the loving thing to do. Does that sound like ego to you?

By the way I thought your post from Heaven Letters was great and I hope to comment on it in the future.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucia van Leeuwen (Luus)
Username: Luus

Registered: 08-2003
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 03:36 am:   

Hello Everyone,

Also here in Amsterdam and in two other cities in Holland people joined the occupy movement last Saturday and in Amsterdam some intend to stay as long as needed (or as long as allowed).

Bart you make such an effort to prove your points, but as far as I can see that's all ego. What needs to be done is share and politicians and the people all over the world need to change their minds and unite and become willing to share everything. Only then will we become as one and the world will be a happy place: HEAVEN. There needs to be more love.

Below I quote the last two paragraphs of today's Heavenletter where God says that love will solve everything:

It is hard to live in a world where there is strife. You don't have to go to a war-torn country to know what strife is. It is hard to live in a world where you are hungry. It is also hard to live in a world where your tummy is full and there are others who didn't have any supper and no one knows what to do about it. Even if someone knows what to do, he may not know how to accomplish it. This is hard for you to bear, and impossible to understand and accept. It is not all right. It is not just. It is not fair. Something is out of balance. This is true. And yet, as hard as it is to fathom, bodies and death are not the sum of life on Earth.

Will you conceive that love from your heart and from many hearts will cure even starvation? More love will balance the world. Life on Earth does not have to be a spectacle. You can get it back in shape. Love will do it. Love can solve the difficulties of the world.


Love,
Luus

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 03:23 am:   

ANOTHER BLAST FROM THE PAST

Friends,

In terms of identifying the specific causes of the current problems, here's another email exchange from years ago that might be of interest. The one on the bottom was from one of my executives to me, and the one on the top was my response to him. The acronym BIS stands for Bank For International Settlements, which is a major supra-national organization.

I will point out that I wrote this over four years ago, before the housing bubble burst, while the stock market was still going up, while the economy was still expanding, while the unemployment rate was probably around 4.5 percent or better, before any of the financial trauma such as the failure of Lehman Brothers and the bailouts, and before any of the mainstream American economists or anyone in any mainstream American press or anyone in the 51 major American governments (Federal plus 50 states) other than David Walker had breathed a word about the possibility of financial or economic problems, and before the Federal Reserve had breathed a word about any imbalances in the financial system.

Love,

Bart



----------------------------------

6/28/2007

Don,

Thanks. Excessive debt is the danger, and it has only been getting worse. After a debt buildup gets to a certain level it has only one possible outcome. It's stunning how many economists, policy makers, and major financial industry executives (think CEO of Citibank, for example) don't understand that
financial stability comes from keeping debt levels stable, and depressions are caused by running up excessive debt. Intelligent economists have understood it for many decades, and thoroughly understood in the 1930s that the Great Depression had been caused by excessive debt. But in recent years you hear supposedly respectable economists say the Depression was caused by interest rates being tightened or by protectionist laws. And among policy makers and financial industry executives, the idea that excessive debt leads to depressions is entirely unknown.

Then you have to consider that if the policy makers, regulators, leading economists, and financial industry executives are totally ignorant of the single most important fact of economics, a fact that has been demonstrated historically many times, how on Earth could they possibly have the mental capacity to address the dangers of the derivatives problem, since it is much more complex and never existed before the 1990s.

Also I would mention that the fact that the BIS came out with this article is probably due to the role of European economists at the BIS. In Europe economists tend to actually know economics, whereas in the US the science of economics has been almost totally lost and replaced by a ludicrous fantasy -- which is why so much of the problem resides in the USA. Asia same as USA as far as the science of economics goes.

Bart

----------------------------------
At 11:45 PM 6/27/2007, you wrote:

BIS warns of Great Depression dangers from credit spree

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/06/25/cncredit125.xm l
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 11:48 pm:   

BLAST FROM THE PAST

Friends,

I faulted Marianne for not identifying specific causes and not presenting specific solutions. That being the case, I should probably do what I am saying she should have done. The following is the text of an email that I sent to Robert Perry in February of 2008. I corresponded a lot with Robert in those days and had been explaining all of this to him in detail for several years prior to that point. I hope you will pay particular attention to the parts in blue.

Love,

Bart




2/23/2008

Robert,

Funny thing happened. I was catching up on my reading and came to an article by Martin Wolf about opinion of Nouriel Roubini, an eminent and widely followed economist. As soon as I finished it, I though, "I'll email this to Robert". Then I thought, "I better check and see whether this is the same as the article that he emailed to me a few days ago".

So to answer your question, yes, this is close to my scenario. And he's using words like "catastrophic", which is what I've been saying. How nice to see the conventional economics profession quoted by the conventional press finally stating what has been obvious since at least the mid 1990s. How interesting that while we were building the problem, in other words while there was time to prevent the problem by ceasing to build it, they said nothing at all. Two points I want to make.

First point: Roubini centers his article around the debt problem. As you know, I've been telling you for several years that there are two problems, debt and derivatives. I want to compare debt and derivatives to bombs. At the end of world war two the US destroyed three Japanese cities. Tokyo was destroyed with thousands of conventional bombs. The Army Air Force took special care to avoid damaging the Imperial Palace, but aside from that 200,000 civilians were killed in the bombing, which is why I say the city was "destroyed". Hiroshima and Nagasaki were each obliterated by a single atomic bomb. Debt is like conventional bombs. Drop thousands and thousands of them on a city and you can destroy it. The combined total of the derivatives is like an atomic bomb in 1945 -- no one has ever seen it before, but it could wipe out the entire financial system essentially overnight.

Second point: The conventional press and the conventional economics industry treat economics like they treat the weather. As if you can only predict it a very short (a few days) period of time in advance and as if it simply "happens" by forces that are beyond our control. Also they present economics and finance as if they are areas that the government can control and fix. All of these premises are utterly false and they are an example of another arena (in addition to everything touching on the subjects of politics and freedom) in which the conventional press and most of the universities are truly nothing but pure brainwashing. Unlike the weather, everything that happens in economics happens strictly and solely as the result of deliberate actions taken thousands of times by billions of people. These actions are carefully monitored and reported, and the data is easily available to anyone whose profession is economics or finance. The only possible outcome of the deliberate actions that have been taken not only by the US government, but more so by hundreds of millions of private Americans, is the "catastrophe" that Roubini warns of. This is a mathematical certainty. Parts of the problem have been blatantly obvious since about 1982. That's 1982 with an "8". The other parts of the problem have been blatantly obvious since about the mid 1990s. However, for all those years, the economics profession, which exists primarily at universities, at financial institutions, at the finance departments of corporations, at the business and finance desks of the major media, and at the state governments and federal government, mostly ignored the problem.
Many economists did clearly explain the problem while there was plenty of time to prevent it -- they were uniformly ignored by the institutions whose role in society is to disseminate information and by the financial professionals and government officials whose role in society is to prevent these sorts of problems.

Those were all the years when the problem could easily have been prevented, because, as I said, the problem arose only by billions of deliberate acts by millions of people, and by government policy, and by government refusal to play it's proper role in regulation. Now that it's too late to do anything about it, it's starting to appear in the popular press.

My overall point here is this is an example of the way the ego runs the world. Also now that it's becoming obvious that everything that the popular press reported about business and finance for at least the last ten years was not only wrong, it was also brainwashing designed to set the country as a whole up for catastrophe, it's probably not to hard to extend that concept to other areas, like politics. I think as ACIM teachers it is important for us to understand the way the world works if we are going to be effective in changing it.

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Judy Junghans (Judy)
Username: Judy

Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 10:35 pm:   

Hi there everyone. I KNOW I know nothing about politics, the financial situation or just about anything. But I did want to share what another teacher said about the demonstrations: "They are Gandhi-like." My ears perked up, and I wondered at that term, "Gandhi-like"--meaning no violence (I think), and bringing in a name of someone who "fought a battle" peacefully and won. It was hopeful.

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out. Remember, it is already over, we are just watching the replay!

"The past is over. It can touch me not."

Thank God!

Judy
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 09:49 pm:   

Friends,

I just watched the video of Marianne Williamson speaking at the Occupy Wall Street protest in L.A. You can find the link at Tony's post of October 13, 2011.

As someone who has been a lifelong student of history and has watched our current economic, financial, and social problems grow for the past three decades, I found the video very disturbing. Marianne is clearly in an emotional state of great rage, and I don't think she could make a speech like that unless her rage were chronic as opposed to transient.

She did a good job of boiling down the problems that we have in terms of the human element of it. The human aspect is something that I've been trying to tell people for decades, including over a decade while there was still time to avoid it. In other words, it's not just numbers on paper and profits or losses on financial statements; it's real suffering by real people (including children who had nothing to do with creating the problems) in real day-to-day life.

What disturbed me about the video is that Marianne's perspective is typical of the causes of the problem rather than of the solutions to the problem. Specifically, she showed no indication of any understanding of the specific causes of the current problems, and such a lack of understanding of specific causes is in and of itself a root cause of all the problems. Secondly, she showed no indication of advancing any specific solutions to the current problems. The problem with not knowing any specific solutions is that it leads to the idea that you can elect office-holders who do know. This is a logical falacy in and of itself, because when you don't know the specific solutions you can't tell which candidate does know them. Thirdly, she clearly thinks she understands economics and finance well enough to address the current problems and that her audience does too, which is an enormous cause of the current problems because even among economics and financial professionals not one in a thousand understands the current problems well enough to address them constructively, and among the general population it's probably more like one in ten thousand. If Marianne had even the slightest understanding of the current problems she would have been addressing it through every available outlet since the middle of the 1990s. Unless someone can show me in her books, or articles, or clips of videos and TV interviews that she has been explaining continuously since the late 1990s that we would get to this impasse and that it would result in significant human suffering, then I'll take the absence of such to be proof that she has no significant understanding of economics and finance. ACIM tells us that as long as we are sure we already know, we don't look for answers. Marianne know nothing but is sure she knows what she needs to know to address the problem, and this mindset is in and of itself a root cause of the problem. If understanding of economics and finance were not exceedingly rare in our society, even among economics and finance professionals, we would not be experiencing the current problems.

I could say the same sort of thing about democracy, that she thinks she understands it but she doesn't, but since I can't so easily prove that point I won't go down that path. Plus the obviousness of her handicap is so apparent and so easily demonstrable with regards to finance and economics that I don't want to be a bully by hitting her again when she's already down for the count.

Getting back to my previous paragraph, the constructive approach for someone like Marianne to take would be "what are we doing wrong that we haven't understood was wrong, and what steps can I take to learn and understand these topics so that we can stop making these problems."

I am heartened by the fact that she gave lip service to non-violence, but at the same time disappointed by the fact that she demonstrates only a kindergarten-level understanding of what violence is.

It would be interesting to see the rest of her speech. I don't know whether she spoke for another 30 seconds or another three hours. What I did see was unfocused rage that didn't clearly identify any specific causes or propose any specific and rational solutions. This is exactly the kind of sentiment that was used by Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse Deng, and Fidel Castro to mobilize support that resulted in the murder and enslavement of hundreds of millions.

Earlier today I wrote an email that said the ACIM movement needs more "Spock" – more knowledge, logic, reason, intelligence, and analysis. I would say the same thing about our society as a whole. Emotion won't get us out of our current problems. It was a lack of knowledge, logic, reason, intelligence, and analysis that got us into these problems, and only attainment and application of these qualities will get us out of our problems. I will mention, as I have done before, that it is only by shifting out of our egos and into our right minds that we will be able to attain and use those mental facilities.

ACIM tells us that we are making the world that we are experiencing, including the problems that we are experiencing. I think that realization leads to a dramatic calming down in order to ask the question "HOW are we making this result that we don't like?" and in order to hear the answer. As long as we point the grievance and blame finger outward, as Marianne is doing, we aren't going to be able to hear the answer with regards to how to start making things better. As long as we are coming from a position of rage, as Marianne is, we can count on making things worse.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2011 - 01:23 pm:   

Dear Christine,

Thank you for the following:"To KNOW is NOT to know! To PERCEIVE IS human!" This tells me so much. I have been perceiving things, and a friend call me on it...I am so grateful she redirected me...She told me to focus on what I want NOT on what I see wrong with the picture...Miracles are happening every second, often times I just question them...:-)!

With Love and Gratitude,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2011 - 11:55 am:   

Bart and ALL,

Thanks for continuiing!

It was my only intention for you to possibly consider your relationship as author of your words.

When you, or anyone, endorse "PROBLEMS" the word is validation and truth???? PROBLEMS???? What other way could we discuss perceptions without endorsing PROBLEMS?

What purpose and meaning is there is "making A POINT?" How could we communicate our perceptions as our own perceptions-human-mind thoughts? "Making A POINT" IS by definition a personal perception is it not?

You always have the personal right to say, write, think etc whatever comes to your human mind.....AND, I think we could practice seeking guidance as ACIM teaches pertaining very poignantly and POINTEDLY from today's lesson including What is the HS.

I have LEARNED that when I wish to feel relationship in human communication it is always best to stick to not making points but rather to engage from a position of CURIOUSITY, asking questions with WHAT and HOW as the primary supposition that in so doing I will myself remain curious and will create engagement.

It is my experience that when communication occurs from curiousity the is NO interrupting, translating, arguiing, SEPARATION. The words themselves are powerful power-brokers for SEPARATION. How would the world see itself if we eliminated such words as PROBLEM, MAKING POINTS, ALIENATION, ARGUIING etc? What would our dialogue create when it's only purpose, meaning and function IS curiousity, openness to mirroring the potential for shift of perception?

What about this? How can we create without the communication errors of the human-mind-thoughts?
Just my thoughts....Thanks for giving me inspiration Bart to share my perception of HS as the mediator-bridge-THE MIND of ATONEMENT. The Source for guidance to be PEACEFUL, practice LOVE and FORGIVENESS.

I KNOW nothing however, I have the opportunity to know my perceptions. AND, I WILLINGLY am curious about them and curious about staying in the LEARNING process.

I DO perceive the "PROBLEMS" of the financial situation as a literal representation of death. AS the media and the people-humans effected by the form presented for us to see, read and hear it is difficult not to perceive death, fear, making points as attack. What IF all communications were required to take the drama projections out? What IF all reporting was required to BE only of curiousity? WHAT and HOW would perceptions shift?

To KNOW is NOT to know! To PERCEIVE IS human!
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2011 - 01:44 am:   

Tony and Christine,

Thanks for responding. More later, but there's one point we need to clarify. Tony in your post of Thursday, October 13, 2011 at 05:51 PM you wrote that the President was referring to the debt ceiling in the quote that I posted. My impression was that the President was referring to immigration laws. The context here WOULD be quite important if he had said something other than the quote that I posted.

IF he had said something to the effect of "I would like to bypass Congress and raise the debt ceiling on my own", AND IF it is true that as you wrote he actually does have the Constitutional authority to do this (I don't know whether he does), THEN the meaning would be "I have the authority to do this, but it's better to do this with the consent of the people's elected representatives, so I'm not going to use my unilateral authority in this case." That of course would be right in line with representative democracy and all the freedoms and protections that representative democracy entails.

The first problem is what the President actually said. The quote that I posted was, in part:
" that he’d like to 'bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.' " Doing so would in fact be the abolition of representative democracy and the replacement of freedom and protections with dictatorship.

The second problem is what the context was. As I said, my impression is that he was talking about immigration laws, not about the debt ceiling. However, I don't know this for sure. The context is important because no President has ever had the authority to unilaterally change any laws, including immigration laws. The reason I'm posting this now is because I'm hoping that someone will have the time to find the text of his speech and post it here. Robert was swift and resourceful enough to find the details of Social Security with regards to the Amish, so maybe someone can find the President's speech and post either the speech, or the relevant part, or a link to it.

More later, but in the meantime I will point out that neither of you addressed the fact that the governor of one of the most populous states in the nation explicitly called for cancelling the 2012 elections so that the current office-holders will no longer be accountable to the public, meaning that the public will no longer have the freedoms and protections inherent in electing their leaders.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Judy Junghans (Judy)
Username: Judy

Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2011 - 08:44 pm:   

Tony, thanks for posting...I'm not sure how to do it. She certainly put herself out there and made some really great points.

I hope you all get a chance to listen to it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2011 - 07:51 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


EVERYONE: Amateur video of Marianne Williamson in L.A. rallying the people in support of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement. Dated: October 12, 2011. 11 minutes, 28 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZPna2RfXzE


Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2011 - 05:51 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


BART, CHRISTINE, & EVERYONE: Bart, thanks for starting such an exciting discussion thread. Of course, government and politics is a predilection of mine so I naturally find these topics interesting, especially since we can bring A Course In Miracles theory into the discussion.

I have an entirely different perception of President Obama and hopeful I might be able to shed some light ("enlighten me" you said) on the "... the idea of doing things on my own is very tempting" quotation of President Obama.

This was the time of the debate in Congress over the raising of the U.S. debt ceiling. During that time the idea surfaced, not from the White House but from the media, that Obama did not need to have a congressional law to raise the debt ceiling. Some thought that the Constitution itself gave any President the power to do whatever was needed to insure that the U.S. Government paid it's debt obligations. I am NOT saying that this is my view.

The part of the Constitution being talked about is Section 4 of the 14th Amendment. This is how it reads:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."


A little bit of the history of this Executive Action possibility and a passionate call for President Obama to do just that can be found in the following article written by Michael Tomaski for The Daily Beast on July 5, 2011 titled, "Why Obama Should Go Rogue." Again, I do not mean I endorse this viewpoint. I'm just trying to show it was not Obama's idea and many wanted him to do this by Executive Order.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/05/obama-and-republicans-headed-fo r-a-constitutional-crisis-over-debt.html


Bart, in you post on October 12 you wrote that your interpretation of Obama's remark was, "... the meaning is that he would like to do away with representative democracy and rule the country as a dictator." I do not see his remark that way. I also ask you to question how you could know what Obama meant by his statement.

It was never President Obama's idea to raise the debt ceiling by Executive Order and he always said he did NOT want to do that when pressured by others to do it. And he was pressured to take this Executive Privilege position a lot as the above article illustrates. I believe the quotation you posted was his response, still another time, when people were pressuring him to raise the debt ceiling without Congressional approval. He may have said it was "very tempting" but this is the same way any of us might say that doing the WRONG thing is very tempting at times. Listening to the ego is "very tempting," but in the times I saw Obama address this issue and respond to the pressure to take Executive Action on raising the debt ceiling, it was very clear to me that he would never do this on the basis of a strong defending of the representative democratic principle. It actually communicated to me the exact opposite of, "... he would like to do away with representative democracy and rule the country as a dictator." He never wanted to do this. He was very consistent about that stance.

If President Obama ever DID want to be a "dictator" this would have been a time for him to make such a move because he had a tremendous amount of support to do it. But he didn't do it. He never supported the idea of doing it. He always communicated that he knew it would be the wrong thing to do.

There was another time when President Obama could have ruled with a heavier executive hand but did not. Again, in this instance, there was a tremendous amount of pressure to do just that and if he had chosen to do that he would have gotten a lot of support. This was in the later part of 2010 with the issue of stopping the military policy of "Don't ask; Don't tell." (DADT) Being Commander In Chief means that President Obama had the authority to issue a military order to stop the policy at any time. Many wanted him to do just that. Here in San Francisco many gay activists were not happy with President Obama because he would not issue that very order. He ALWAYS said that the best way to do away with DADT was through an act of Congress, not through a military order from the Commander in Chief. He stood up FOR representative democracy when he had every recognized power in the country not to have to do that.

I liked what Christine had to say. It is up to us to choose what perceptions we have about our President, and she wasn't choosing to see him as someone working against representative democracy. Neither am I. Not only do I not want to have a President who is a wanna be "dictator" but he does not appear to be that way to me in any way, shape, or form. He appears to be the exact opposite and these two incidents when he could have moved in the "dictator" direction and been able to get support in the courts of public and legal opinion, he choose not to.

I question the value of perceiving our duly, democratically elected, U.S.A. President in this way, "Only deeply malevolent personalities who are bitterly opposed to freedom and justice could have voiced these kinds of remarks." I see that you have already acknowledged that that remark was " ... probably not the best way for an ACIM student to be expressing himself" so I, Rev. Tony, won't say any more about that.

Drawing an analogy between the current administration and Nazi Germany also feels extreme and non-productive to me. "The obvious example of this dynamic is Germany's fall from democracy to dictatorship in the 1930s." To me, this perception instills fear. Germany's fall from democracy to dictatorship in the 1930s was a dark, violent, ego run amuck time for our civilization. I'm sure we both agree on that. To say that this is what might be happening now is a powerful statement that triggers intense fear in many. To say that you perceive our President as wanting to become a "dictator" is also a statement that will trigger fear in people. I ask you to go within and ask Holy Spirit if this is how He wants you to be expressing yourself.

You have a right to your views and a right to express them. That is freedom of speech, a great democratic principle. Christine has a right to her view and I have a right to my view. We have looked at the very same events you looked at but arrived at an entirely different perception of them. I believe our democracy is secure and it has never been in better hands. We have a President who has strongly upheld the representative democratic, political, process even when it wasn't going his way and he had public support to do just the opposite. He has fought hard for human rights and human dignity by working to get the military to lift the ban on gay soldiers and sailors and end DADT. We also have a President who tries ceaselessly to find middle ground agreement with politicians who have very different views and show no desire to compromise at all. This is what I CHOOSE to perceive AND this IS what I DO perceive.

"There has been much confusion about what perception means because the same word is used both for awareness and for the interpretation of awareness. Yet you cannot be aware without interpretation, and what you perceive is your interpretation." (OrEd.Tx.10.60)


All of us need to be vigilant of our perception choices.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 05:16 pm:   

Friends,

BART: "I'm trying to make a point,...."

You, my brother, taught me the right pronounciation of hyperbole. So you are maybe the last to wonder why I totally understand a "black&white" reductionism to get some point across. No confusion over here. You make your points in a most loving way.

Language is just a vehicle, and as long as the unified Purpose is defined and embraced, IMHO all language will do. Even if we sya "you look wicked" :-) ( I still hope Rev Tony has forgiven me for that one!)

If you are going to be a keynote speaker in Chicago, you'll probably be taped. But then again, you have an editing option before broadcast. I still wonder whether Tony likes the idea.

Much light across the Globe,

love, maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 05:01 pm:   

IMPROVEMENT NEEDED

Friends,

My phrase "deeply malevolent personalities" from yesterday's post is probly not the best way for an ACIM student to be expressing himself.

I'm trying to make a point, and I'll try to think of a better way to express that point. I recognize the need for more accurate words here.

Love,

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 11:16 am:   

Bart,

You wrote...

"SOMETIMES ITS NOT SO OBSCURE...

"The news clip below contains a QUOTE that MIGHT be of some interest.

IT'S apparently from about A SPEECH that was GIVEN by PRESIDENT Obama
on about JULY 25 of this year.

The following is from
http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2011/07/25/obama-id-bypass-congress-an d-change-rules-my-own.

Earlier in the day, THE president let his FRUSTRATION over the stalled
debt talks SEEP INTO an address on Latino issues, CONFESSING that he’d
like to “bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.” He told the
National Council of La Raza, “Believe me, the idea of doing things on
my own is very tempting. I promise you.”

I, (BART) had a hard time BELIEVING THE QUOTE, so I googled "belive me, the
idea of doing things on my own is very tempting" and got 38,700 hits,
so it LOOKS LIKE looks like a legitimate quote TO ME (BART).

Just in case THE MEANING of
what our President said is not clear, the meaning is that he would like to do away with representative democracy and rule the country as a dictator. If someone else can cast this in a different light, please
enlighten me."

Bart, your post continues in this manner of making personal statements of meaning as you perceive. NO ONE can enlighten another. ACIM is offering you, me, the world and ALL that read SPEECHES, EDITORIALS etc choice FOR SHIFTING OF PERCEPTION's as SELF reflective.

This post IS Bart's projection of the meaning of A SPEECH by THE PRESIDENT on July 25, 2011. As such it is one humans THOUGHT's from the human-mind. I could imagine that if those personal thoughts were offered to the Holy Spirit as what Bart does NOT want he might offer his thoughts of a human mind as ENLIGHTENED by the teaching of ACIM. They would appear as quite different.

"If someone else can cast this in a different light, please
enlighten me."

I do NOT perceive the ability too "cast" light however I know I can shift perception, for myself, of the light or darkness that appears on the page for my eyes to read.

Judy made a request to offer how we experience the lessons..Bart, I choose to perceive you are requesting the same. I really have NO clue your, personal INTENTION and I am very sure of the IMPACT of the words for me/ME personally.

We are told directly in the current lessons the Holy Spirit IS the mediator-bridge to God...to bring ALL thoughts of the human mind for TRANSLATION of what we do NOT want. The focus and intention is to ask guidance for what we do NOT want with the INTENTION NOT to PROJECT what we do NOT want BUT what we DO want.

The impact for me is you, BART, want me to read you BART want me to consider "enlightenment" is intended in such negative personal projections focused on the SPEECH of THE PRESIDENT from 3 months past as meaning..."he would like to do away with representative democracy and rule the country as a dictator?"

Bart, I suggest you have asked a rhetorical question that has embedded the answer you seek should you choose to take the time to examine your words using INTENTION and IMPACT as ACIM guidance presented in the form....of taking what you do NOT want to the H.S. and using the guidance for projecting what you DO want.

I do NOT want to perceive A SPEECH of THE PRESIDENT from 3 months past MEANS...he would like to do away with representative democracy and rule the country as a dictator."

Bart, enlightenment, for me, in this particular dialogue would appear in a form in which you would first consider what YOU want and for a few moments also take the TIME to at least be curious about how you tell me and others what YOU WANT.

In this particular share you appear to projecting thoughts of a human mind WANTING to effect others RELATIONSHIPS. It is a human error to engage in triangulated communications. For example recently my sister was given a communication from my mother about her perception that she had NOT communicated with me as she wished. My sister, will all good intention, told me of the communication AND then said "I WANT YOU to call her."

I replied "I hear that is what you WANT." I need to make my own decisions about what I WANT to do. My RELATIONSHIP with Mom is between and about US. My RELATIONSHIP with you is about US. PLEASE do NOT think that you are being helpful when you ask me to do what you WANT me to do in my personal relationships that do NOT pertain to you." She was offended, defended herself saying "I am only trying to make things better. I was not trying to offend you. And, I do WANT YOU to call her."

This example seems to apply, for me, in your share Bart. PLEASE consider that you have asked me to hear how you WANT to perceive President Obama. MY RELATIONSHIP with THE PRESIDENT is MY RELATIONSHIP. What I choose to PERCEIVE in SPEECHES, EDITORIAL's the WORD's PERCEPTIONS, PROJECTIONS....ie EGO's of human mind thoughts IS only a PERSONAL choice of choosing WHAT do I want? WHAT do I NOT want?

I do NOT want to be asked for another to choose about my personal relationships for me. I do NOT want my sister tell me what she wants for me to do IN/WITH/ABOUT my relationship with my mother. I DO want her to respect what I have asked her NOT to do. I DO want her to consider this request when she COMMUNICATE's with me about OUR mother.

Bart, PLEASE consider taking time to respect my request not to tell me what YOU WANT me to perceive for my RELATIONSHIPS. In this example I would prefer you NOT tell me the meaning of a SPEECH delivered 3 mo's ago by THE PRESIDENT has any relationship with Barack Obama's meaning to or for me as...."he would like to do away with representative democracy and rule the country as a dictator."

I perceive this may be your personally chosen relationship, it is NOT mine and I do NOT perceive this to be the forum for one another to share human-mind-thoughts of projecting telling others how to relate personally with others. It is NOT what H.S. ever guides me to do. I know that this example reminded me to ask for guidance to respond to you because I do read you are telling what you want me to perceive about my relationship to/with THE PRESIDENT. PLEASE consider the value of NOT doing this in ALL relationships Bart it is a mistake of INTENTION-IMPACT. Simply and easily corrected.

Personally, I do NOT perceive the meaning you are personally ascribing to A SPEECH delivered by THE President 3 mo's ago. I do NOT WANT to be told to perceive this as guidance for RELATING to/with/about THE President. My relationship with The President is my relationship. My relationship with you Bart is with you Bart. My relationship with my sister is with my sister. My relationship with my mother is with my mother. WHEN my Sister tells me WHAT she WANTS me to do about my relationship with my mother she has made a communication error in OUR Relationship calling for correction. The IMPACT of repeatedly experiencing this mistake in relationship when asked directly NOT to do so creates SEPARATION of related in all forms/all levels. The EGO rules the game.

Who is relationship with? Who is responsible for WHO in relating? Who chooses meaning relating to relationships with others? WHEN is a call for asking guidance for WHAT we do NOT want in relating in and with our relationships being TRULY HELPFUL? I WANT to choose to project what I WANT and not what I do NOT want in my relationships and I do NOT want to project what I want others to do, perceive or be in their personal relationships with others. That could appear to be entitlement to such magical human mind thoughts of enlightenment....I am still seeking enlightenment.
Respectfully,

Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 01:12 am:   

One correction, google string is
"I think we ought to suspend, perhaps"
not
"I think we out to suspend, perhaps"

Now I'm going to try what Tony taught us on his 10/3/2011 post about posting URLs here:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/09/28/2645238/perdue-ponders-suspending-co ngressional.html

http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2011/07/25/obama-id-bypass-congress-an d-change-rules-my-own

Ducking to avoid projectiles,

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 12:49 am:   

SOMETIMES IT'S NOT SO OBSCURE

Friends,

The news clip below contains a quote that might be of some interest. It's apparently from about a speech that was given by President Obama on about July 25 of this year. The following is from
http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2011/07/25/obama-id-bypass-congress-an d-change-rules-my-own.
Earlier in the day, the president let his frustration over the stalled debt talks seep into an address on Latino issues, confessing that he’d like to “bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.” He told the National Council of La Raza, “Believe me, the idea of doing things on my own is very tempting. I promise you.”
I had a hard time believing the quote, so I googled "belive me, the idea of doing things on my own is very tempting" and got 38,700 hits, so it looks like a legitimate quote to me. Just in case the meaning of what our President said is not clear, the meaning is that he would like to do away with representative democracy and rule the country as a dictator. If someone else can cast this in a different light, please enlighten me.

My home state has developed a reputation in recent years of electing governors who appear to represent the very worst vices that can be found in humanity. The current Democratic governor of North Carolina, Beverly Perdue, recently echoed President Obama's desire to abolish the freedoms inherent in representative government when she said on September 27 of this year:
"I think we ought to suspend, perhaps, elections for Congress for two years and just tell them we won't hold it against them, whatever decisions they make, to just let them help this country recover."
That's from http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/09/28/2645238/perdue-ponders-suspending-co ngressional.html. Google "I think we out to suspend, perhaps" and you'll get 47,200 hits, so it looks like another legitimate quote. Again, if anyone else can caste this in a different light, I'm open to hearing it.

Just in case the significance of these quotes is not apparent to ACIM students, in our democracy it would only be possible for people like Obama and Perdue to abolish democracy by getting elected first. Secondly, once democracy has been replaced by dictatorship, there are no limits on the capacity of government to attack. The obvious example of this dynamic is Germany's fall from democracy to dictatorship in the 1930s. So as ACIM students whose assignment is to get out of attack, we can ask ourselves whether we want to vote for the kind of candidates who desire first to attack everyone by abolishing the freedoms inherent in representative government, and then to dictate over society with no limits upon their ability to attack.

The first remark that I would make about these quotes is that I think they would never have been voiced before very recent years, such as in the past two or three. They would never have been voiced farther in the past, because if they had been voiced whoever said them would have never been able to run for elective office again. If Obama had said that sort of thing during the election he would have lost by the most extreme landslide in the history of American elections.

The second remark that I would make about these quotes is that sometimes you don't have to analyze every issue to understand where a politician is coming from. Only deeply malevolent personalities who are bitterly opposed to freedom and justice could have voiced these kinds of remarks. In terms of voting, they tell you all you need to know about the people who spoke them. Can you imagine George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln, or Thomas Jefferson ever having said anything like this?

The final thing that I would say about these remarks is a follow-up on my remark yesterday about "journalism as brainwashing". A large part of "journalism as brainwashing" consists of what is overlooked and what is emphasized. My sense is that if a Republican candidate or officeholder had made remarks like this, it would have been the lead story every day for weeks on outlets like the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, ABC, NBC, or CBS. Outlets that didn't emphasize these remarks (especially the one by the President because his significance is national and the governor's is only state-wide) can quickly be identified as "news" outlets whose purpose is not information, but brainwashing.

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2011 - 01:35 am:   

GAPAA – EXAMPLE OF IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION

Friends,

A day or two ago I posted the early part of OrEd.Tx.9, including part of OrEd.Tx.9.12 which reads in part "The ego's plan, of course, makes no sense and will not work. By following it, you will merely place yourself in an impossible situation to which the ego always leads you." The basic implication is that by allowing the ego to use government as a means of attack, we now find ourselves in an impossible situation, with "we" referring to Western civilization on both sides of the Atlantic but at the moment somewhat moreso in Europe than in the USA. However, I provided no description of what the current "impossible situation" is.

The editorial below is meant to shed some light on the current "impossible situation". It's from the New York Times 9/29/2011 edition. I don't normally read the NYT because I consider it to be among the worst prominent offenders in terms of journalism as brainwashing. However, like Tony, sometimes I like to hear from "the other side", and on this particular day my inner voice was telling me to buy the NYT. I disagree with the policy solutions set forth in it and especially with the sentence at the end which reads "That is what caused the Great Depression." If prominent media outlets like the NYT had a clue as to what caused the Great Depression we wouldn't be experiencing our current problems. Maybe one day soon I can give paragraph-by-paragraph commentary on the editorial to put it in perspective.

I'm digressing, so back to my theme. The "impossible situation" is that our current problems are caused by too much debt, and the solution being offered in the editorial from the NYT is more debt. This is what I spoke of some time ago when I said the current situation is like a man on the first floor of a building on fire, and instead of running out the first floor door, goes up the steps and keeps on doing so floor by floor until he jumps out a top-floor window.

Getting back to ACIM and "government and politics as attack", although much of the debt problem is directly attributable only to the private sector, a significant portion of it is directly attributable only to government, especially "across the pond". Also, a significant portion of the private debt bubble was encouraged, and in some very important cases even mandated, by government. If as a society we had even the faintest grasp of economics, we could have used government to prevent the private debt bubble and would have never engaged government in adding to the debt bubble. Tony wrote once that the problem is that we don't realize that we are the Christ. I'm convinced that until we do start to understand our true relationship with God, until we do start to free ourselves from our egos, we as a society will not see the obvious solutions that are right in front of our faces. I started warning everyone I knew about the debt bubble in 1996 saying it would lead us to this impasse. I think the ultimate reason that almost no-one understood what I was saying, that almost no-one could follow me as I connected the dots for them, was because they were coming from their egos, or as Tony put it, they didn't realize that we are the Christ.

I have said that the results of our use of government to attack are vast. A short time ago I saw a chart showing that personal income (or something like that, it came out today for any fact-checkers who want to correct me) in the USA has been in a more or less straight line decline since the end of 2007 and has continued down straight through the "recovery" to the most recent data. Government has been a major cause of this decline. If that's not vast and unconscious, I don't know what is.

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart




source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/opinion/killing-the-recovery.html

September 28, 2011
Killing the Recovery

The world has barely dug out of recession and the global economy is again slowing dangerously. Most leaders seem eager to make things even worse.

Instead of looking for ways to reignite growth, Europe’s leaders — and Republicans on Capitol Hill — are determined to slash public spending. Europe’s fixation on austerity is also compounding its debt crisis, bringing the Continent even closer to the brink. Meanwhile, China’s government, which is struggling to contain inflation without letting its currency rise, has been trying to slow domestic demand, allowing its trade surplus to balloon.

Each of these policies is wrong. In combination, they are likely to tip the world into a deep recession.

The International Monetary Fund has cut its forecast for global growth this year to 4 percent, from the 4.3 percent it had forecast in April. It expects rich countries to grow by only 1.6 percent. That may be too optimistic.

The I.M.F. forecasts that the United States will grow by 1.5 percent this year and 1.9 percent in 2012. But that assumes Congress will continue payroll tax cuts and extended unemployment insurance, as President Obama has called for. Mark Zandi of Moody’s Economy.com warns that if Congress fails to do so, the country will probably slip into recession.

Europe is in even worse shape. Rich nations that could afford to spend more to increase growth, like Germany and Britain, are instead slashing spending. Germany and its rich neighbors are also insisting that Greece, Portugal and other debtor countries accept even stiffer doses of austerity to regain the confidence of investors. Sending these economies into near collapse means that they will never be able to dig out or pay off their creditors.

While the German Parliament is expected to approve a new $600 billion bailout fund on Thursday, many European leaders already admit it is too small to deal with turmoil that now also threatens Spain and Italy.

It is true that many countries do not have the money to pay for policies to promote employment and growth. The United States, Britain, Germany and China could boost global demand by spending more at home and buying more from weaker countries that cannot stimulate their own economies.

The United States government must cut its budget deficit, but the economy must recover first. According to Mr. Zandi, President Obama’s $450 billion jobs plan could add 1.9 million jobs in 2012 and cut the unemployment rate by a percentage point. With interest rates so low, the government could easily pay for a bigger program.

The British government has similar room to maneuver. And its stubborn insistence on fiscal austerity is already causing havoc. But the countries that could do most to assist global growth are China and Germany.

China today makes 14 percent of the world’s economic product but consumes only 6 percent of it. Allowing its currency to rise would help combat inflation by lowering the domestic price of imports, while increasing the spending power of the Chinese people.

Germany’s export model is also failing, producing little growth while sucking demand from its neighbors. Germany could easily raise money at low cost to stimulate its own consumption. Yet not only has it refused stimulus spending, it is imposing austerity on the rest of Europe — forcing weak countries to contract their economies in exchange for its aid.

Economic policy makers have made similar mistakes before. That is what caused the Great Depression. There is not a lot of time left to get this right.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 04:26 pm:   

GAPAA -- TRANSFER PAYMENTS AS ATTACK, #2

Friends,

I wrote the following before: "As we go on I'll try to make the point that almost all transfer payments are attack. They look like compassion but they're actually attack. As ACIM students we should recognize this as typical ego veiling of the truth. I don't claim to have proven that point .... My experience was that I had to see thousands of "dots" before the picture started to become clear." Previously I posted from the economist Walter Williams. Today as I listened to Reverend Larry's recording of the Text of the Original Edition, I came across the section posted below. It's from the start of Chapter Nine, The Correction of Error. We discussed this section some time ago. I probably remarked at that time that I find this part of the Text to be among the most difficult to understand, because it appears to put a limit on our ability to communicate. Specifically, it appears to put a limit on our ability to explain in verbal or written language to each other how we think they are mistaken. However, if we extend "correction of error" to using the power of guns (i.e., government laws backed up by police and courts and prisons) to force people to live differently when they are not harming anyone, then it's not so hard to understand. All transfer payments are a way of saying in general "In spite of the fact that you aren't harming anyone, the way that you are living your life is wrong, and I'm going to use the power of police and courts and prisons to correct your error by force." Specifically transfer payments are saying "You are living wrongly by not giving your financial assets to others in the way that I think you should, and I'm going to correct your error by forcing you to give your financial assets to others in the way that I think you should, using police and their guns to enforce my correction of your error." This is exactly what we do whenever we vote for candidates running for office who are not opposed to transfer payments. Like I said, the way that the ego uses the government as a means of attack is vast, and for most of us, quite unconscious.

The following paragraphs are from OrEd.Tx.9.1-8,12.

9:1 The alertness of the ego to the errors which other egos make is not the kind of vigilance the Holy Spirit would have you maintain. Egos are critical in terms of the kind of "sense" they stand for. They understand this kind of sense because it is sensible to them. To the Holy Spirit, it makes no sense at all. To the ego, it is kind and right and good to point out errors and "correct" them. This makes perfect sense to the ego, which is totally unaware of what errors are and what correction is.

2 Errors are of the ego, and correction of errors of any kind lies solely in the relinquishment of the ego. When you correct a brother, you are telling him that he is wrong. He may be making no sense at the time, and it is certain that if he is speaking from the ego, he will be making no sense. But your task is still to tell him he is right. You do not tell him this verbally if he is speaking foolishly because he needs correction at another level, since his error is at another level. He is still right because he is a Son of God. His ego is always wrong, no matter what it says or does.

3 If you point out the errors of your brother's ego, you must be seeing through yours, because the Holy Spirit does not perceive his errors. This must be true if there is no communication at all between the ego and the Holy Spirit. The ego makes no sense, and the Holy Spirit does not attempt to understand anything that arises from it. Since He does not understand it, He does not judge it, knowing that nothing it engenders means anything.

4 When you react at all to errors, you are not listening to the Holy Spirit. He has merely disregarded them, and if you attend to them, you are not hearing Him. If you do not hear Him, you are listening to your ego and making as little sense as the brother whose errors you perceive. This cannot be correction. Yet it is more than merely lack of correction for him. It is the giving up of correction in yourself.

5 When a brother behaves insanely, you can heal him only by perceiving the sanity in him. If you perceive his errors and accept them, you are accepting yours. If you want to give yours over to the Holy Spirit, you must do this with his. Unless this becomes the one way in which you handle all errors, you cannot understand how all errors are undone. How is this different from telling you that what you teach you learn? Your brother is as right as you are, and if you think he is wrong, you are condemning yourself.

6 You cannot correct yourself. Is it possible, then, for you to correct another? Yet you can see him truly because it is possible for you to see yourself truly. It is not up to you to change him but merely to accept him as he is. His errors do not come from the truth that is in him, and only this truth is yours. His errors cannot change this and can have no effect at all on the truth in you. To perceive errors in anyone and to react to them as if they were real is to make them real to you. You will not escape paying the price for this, not because you are being punished for it, but because you are following the wrong guide and will lose your way.

7 Your brother's errors are not of him any more than yours are of you. Accept his errors as real, and you have attacked yourself. If you would find your way and keep it, see only truth beside you, for you walk together. The Holy Spirit in you forgives all things in you and in your brother. His errors are forgiven with yours. Atonement is no more separate than love. Atonement cannot be separate because it comes from love. Any attempt you make to correct a brother means that you believe correction by you is possible, and this can only be the arrogance of the ego. Correction is of God, Who does not know of arrogance. The Holy Spirit forgives everything because God created everything.

8 Do not undertake His function, or you will forget yours. Accept only the function of healing in time because that is what time is for. God gave you the function to create in eternity. You do not need to learn this, but you do need to learn to want this, and for this all learning was made. This is the Holy Spirit's good use of an ability which you do not need, but which you have made. Give it to Him! You do not know how to use it. He will teach you how to see yourself without condemnation by learning how to look on everything without it. Condemnation will then not be real to you, and all your errors will be forgiven.


Finally, these sentences from paragraph 12 should show us ACIM's universal theory behind the concrete and observable fact that transfer payments, which are the ego's plan, have led most of Western civilization to the "impossible situation" which we currently experience:

12 The ego, too, has a plan of forgiveness because you are asking for one, though not of the right teacher. The ego's plan, of course, makes no sense and will not work. By following it, you will merely place yourself in an impossible situation to which the ego always leads you.

Here's another way of looking at that is this. Since transfer payments have led us into an impossible social / financial / economic / governmental situation, we can conclude that transfer payments must be the ego's plan. Obviously the Holy Spirit's plan would never lead us into any impossible situation such as the social / financial / economic / governmental impossible situation that we see throughout much of Europe and also in the USA today.

There are many perspectives that can lead us to the conclusion that under the thought system set up by ACIM transfer payments are attack. These perspectives from "correction of error" and "the ego's plan leads to impossible situations" are two, and I hope to post others in the future.

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Judy Junghans (Judy)
Username: Judy

Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2011 - 11:45 pm:   

Subject: Chinese take on quantitative easing
This is an amusing cartoon, and it takes a few minutes to watch, but worth it. It has dubbed English and English subtitles.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjI0MjgwODY0.html

Sums up the insanity of it all.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 03:54 pm:   

Friends,

Thank you Bart. I was posting this in response to the other weblinks shared here. Capital management is something quite incomprehensible to me, but I thought it might be of interest.

BART:
~ "is it relevant to this "government and politics" thread, or should it be on some other
thread?

I think it is because this broker/journalist says on BBC that Goldman Sacks governs the world, and not any government.

~ Second, when you say "Its a money making opportunity?" ...I'm reminded of Tony's policy,... that this is not a forum for financial advice.

Absolutely respected, and thank you from the heart for your availability in private to those who have concerns on that field.

I was mentioning it because the broker actually says the coming recession is a dream for him which he hopes will become true. He lists the opportunities for profit.

So, my guidance at this point is to leave it at that. Maybe someone will benefit from the BBC news item and can use it for a miracle in perception. WHich would actually be my prayer for all this.

As this place is about ACIM, and we have all agreed upon one single unified Purpose for everything, to me, anything appearing here as personal share or synchronistic inspiration qualifies to be miracle material.

IOW I'm all for integration as contrasted to dissociation. I've tried to convey this yesterday, in particular when integrating all threads here into one purpose and unified perception; And I apologize if I made that point all too personal.

It is IMO truly universal, so we're all blessed by Tony's hospitality, and can leave the over-all plan in Jesus' hands.

Happy trails, and thanks again,

peace, maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 03:16 pm:   

Maz,

In response to yours of Tuesday, October 04, 2011 at 01:40 pm.

It's always great to hear from you, but I'm not going to have a chance to watch it. I'm working every possible second on other topics, the amount of information that's out there is almost infinite, and I have to draw the line somewhere. Perhaps you would like to summarize it for us and then invite comments from everyone.

However, I want to raise two questions. First, is it relevant to this "government and politics" thread, or should it be on some other thread? Second, when you say "Its a money making opportunity?" I'm reminded of Tony's policy, which I endorse, that this is not a forum for financial advice. I know I stretched that line a little in my previous post, but in general I'm trying to adhere to it. Let's stay focused on topics that relate to ACIM here on this forum. If you have a specific question on financial advice, send it to my personal email.

Love,

Bart
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 01:40 pm:   

Bart,

this was marked as a hoax a couple of days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veKEgB68kF8
( BBC Interview / Confessions of a Broker )


but its actually on the bbc website!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15059135

He says he is dreaming of a recession every night!

Now, I am confused. Its a money making opportunity?

I'd appreciate your educated opinion on this.
The first link above is showing all of it, the BBC
link only part of it.

Thanks much brother,

namazte

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 12:19 pm:   

Hi to All,

This is not about NPR nor Christians nor even about "spiritual warfare". Simply a dialogue.

I strongly encourage you to LISTEN, with your own ears, to the podcast of this mans voice. His tone of voice speaks much more to his beliefs and engagement with this world we share as Brothers. The interviewer is very respectful and balanced in the questions and responses to her Brother. As a demonstration of love and dialogue it is quite powerful....far more EMPOWERING than reading the text.
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 11:25 am:   

Friends,

CHRISTINE: WoW, something to learn everyday. I wasn't aware of the term "spiritual warfare." until I shared this bit of information with a friend. She responded saying that Spiritual warfare relates to a couple of scriptures, the primary one of which is:
2 Corinthians 10:3-5

Amplified Bible (AMP)

3For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons.

4For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds,

5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),



The 'weapons' of spiritual warfare are: sustained vibrant prayer, affirmation of pertinent scriptures when confronted with observations that appear to run counter to scripture, communal prayer, repeated declarations of having been saved, calling on 'the blood' to remind self that he/she is forgiven, and (most importantly) mind renewal and transformation. According to the bible, spiritual warfare can be applied to many things and, most especially to politics/government, which the bible characterizes as being ruled by the darker 'powers and principalities.' It is EXTREMELY powerful. And it remains so even if the ideas of those engaged in it are somewhat off. That being said I would never trust npr to 'get it right' when it comes to characterizing what conservative Christians are about. Like the Christians, these folks also have an agenda.


peace, and thanks for sharing!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 10:54 am:   

Dear Christine,

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for enlightening me this morning with your post.

Blessings my sister!!!!

Love,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 10:37 am:   

Hi,
Last night I heard this interview on NPR by one of the "Apostles" of the New Apostolic Reformation. It reminded me of this discussion thread. It was quite interesting as much of what this human says in words has a bit of ringtone of ACIM. I imagined this human endorsing GAPAA and wondered about the significance pertaining to seeing, hearing and shape shifting.


http://www.npr.org/2011/08/24/139781021/the-evangelicals-engaged-in-spiritual-wa rfare

The Evangelicals Engaged In Spiritual Warfare
Listen to the Story
Fresh Air from WHYY[39 min 11 sec]
Add to Playlist
Download
Transcript


EnlargeDavid J. Phillip/AP
Texas Gov. Rick Perry prays at The Response, his call to prayer for a nation in crisis, on Aug. 6 in Houston. The event was organized, in part, by members of the New Apostolic Reformation.
text size A A AAugust 24, 2011
An emerging Christian movement that seeks to take dominion over politics, business and culture in preparation for the end times and the return of Jesus, is becoming more of a presence in American politics. The leaders are considered apostles and prophets, gifted by God for this role.

The international "apostolic and prophetic" movement has been dubbed by its leading American architect, C. Peter Wagner, as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Although the movement is larger than the network organized by Wagner — and not all members describe themselves as part of Wagner's NAR — the so-called apostles and prophets of the movement have identifiable ideology that separates them from other evangelicals.

More by Rachel Tabachnick
Disinformation and Misinformation - Becoming Educated About the New Apostolic Reformation
Why Have the Apostles Behind Rick Perry's Prayer Rally Been Invisible to Most Americans?
Resource Directory for the New Apostolic Reformation Updates
The Ideology and History of the New Apostolic Reformation
Two ministries in the movement planned and orchestrated Texas Gov. Rick Perry's recent prayer rally, where apostles and prophets from around the nation spoke or appeared onstage. The event was patterned after The Call, held at locations around the globe and led by Lou Engle, who has served in the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders of the NAR. Other NAR apostles endorsed Perry's event, including two who lead a 50-state "prayer warrior" network. Thomas Muthee, the Kenyan pastor who anointed Sarah Palin at the Wasilla Assembly of God Church in 2005, while praying for Jesus to protect her from the spirit of witchcraft, is also part of this movement.

On Wednesday's Fresh Air, Rachel Tabachnick, who researches the political impact of the religious right, joins Terry Gross for a discussion about the growing movement and its influence and connections in the political world.

Tabachnick says the movement currently works with a variety of politicians and has a presence in all 50 states. It also has very strong opinions about the direction it wants the country to take. For the past several years, she says, the NAR has run a campaign to reclaim what it calls the "seven mountains of culture" from demonic influence. The "mountains" are arts and entertainment; business; family; government; media; religion; and education.

"They teach quite literally that these 'mountains' have fallen under the control of demonic influences in society," says Tabachnick. "And therefore, they must reclaim them for God in order to bring about the kingdom of God on Earth. ... The apostles teach what's called 'strategic level spiritual warfare' [because they believe that the] reason why there is sin and corruption and poverty on the Earth is because the Earth is controlled by a hierarchy of demons under the authority of Satan. So they teach not just evangelizing souls one by one, as we're accustomed to hearing about. They teach that they will go into a geographic region or a people group and conduct spiritual-warfare activities in order to remove the demons from the entire population. This is what they're doing that's quite fundamentally different than other evangelical groups."

Related NPR Stories

michele bachmann
The Books And Beliefs Shaping Michele Bachmann

rick perry
Rick Perry's Religious Revival Sparks A Holy War

politics
A Refuge For Powerful Lawmakers

africa
Finding The Root Of Anti-Gay Sentiment In Uganda

religion
Ousted Evangelical Reflects On Faith, Future

around the nation
When Right-Wing Extremism Moves Mainstream

author interviews
The Secret Political Reach Of 'The Family'
Rick Perry's Rally

The organizers of Perry's rally were from ministries founded by two apostles/prophets of the movement — The Call, and the International House of Prayer founded by Mike Bickle. Bickle, who led part of Perry's event, has claimed that Oprah Winfrey is a precursor of the Antichrist, and Engle has claimed that gay people are controlled by "demonic spirits." Both have served on the Council of Prophetic Elders initiated by Wagner.

"Lou Engle [has spoken] at length about how one of his sons has started an International House of Prayer in the Castro district of San Francisco and that his son is now expelling demons from homosexuals, and supposedly then this cures them of their homosexuality," says Tabachnick. "He has also held [prayer rallies] around the world."

One of Engle's previous rallies took place in Uganda in May 2010, shortly after an anti-homosexuality bill had been proposed.

"Various people got on the stage [at his rally] and promoted the anti-homosexuality bill in Uganda, which is a very draconian bill that would allow for executions for certain offenses, and would also allow for people who don't report homosexual history to be jailed," she says. "The apostles have had a long history in Uganda, and some of them have had close relationships with both political and religious leaders there. In fact, an apostle in Uganda takes credit for promoting the anti-homosexuality bill and was recognized by the parliament in Uganda when the bill was introduced."

Engle has another rally planned in November in Detroit. The purpose of the prayer rally, says Tabachnick, is to "fight the demonic spirit of Islam."

"In other words, [they want] to conduct spiritual warfare against the spiritual demons which they claim hold Muslims in bondage and keep them from converting," she says. "Of course, this is expressed in terms of love. They say 'We don't hate Muslims. We love Muslims. But we hate that they are in spiritual bondage and don't convert to Christianity.' "

A 'Different' Evangelicalism

Tabachnick, who has been researching and writing about the apostles for a decade, says her own religious background has helped her with her research. She grew up as a Southern Baptist and converted to Judaism as an adult.

"Having the Southern Baptist background and growing up in the Deep South has helped me to be able to do this research and has also helped me realize something that might not be apparent to some other people looking at the movement," she says. "This is quite radically different than the evangelicalism of my youth. The things that we've been talking about are not representative of evangelicalism. They're not representative of conservative evangelicalism. So I think that's important to keep in mind. This is a movement that's growing in popularity, and one of the ways they've been able to do that [is because] they're not very identifiable to most people. They're just presented as nondenominational or just Christian — but it is an identifiable movement now with an identifiable ideology."


courtesy of the guest
Rachel Tabachnick is an independent researcher and a contributor to Talk To Action. She is also the co-founder of the blog NARWatch.
Interview Highlights

On the issues of the international "apostolic and prophetic" movement

"[Their issues are] anti-abortion, anti-gay rights — but they also have ... the belief that government should not be involved in social safety nets, that the country is becoming socialist, if not communist ... — all of what we've come to call 'Tea Party issues' of very small government. In the case of the apostles, they believe this because they believe that a large government that handles the safety net is taking away what is the domain of the church and of Christianity."

On dominionism

"Dominionism is simply that Christians of this belief system must take control over the various institutions of society and government. Some things that make this group unique is that they have some unusual concepts of what they call spiritual warfare that have not been seen before in other groups. Spiritual warfare is a common term in evangelicalism and in Christianity, but they have some unique approaches and some unique spins on this that distinguish them from other groups."

On Thomas Muthee's video series

"The process [in these videos] is that the people come together, repent, pray together, expel the demons from their community — which they describe in terms of witches and witchcraft — and then the community undergoes a transformation in which there can be miraculous healing, the growth of very large vegetables [and] the end of corruption and crime. What was totally missed by the press was that Muthee was an international leader in the [NAR] movement at the time and recognized because of his role in this series of videos."

On the topics at Rick Perry's rally

"The major topics at these events [are] anti-abortion, anti-gay rights and the conversion of Jews in order to advance the end times. And this was very visible at Perry's events as these apostles led all of these different prayers and repentance ceremonies at [his rally]."


Twitter (334)Facebook (59159)ShareComments (859)Recommend (500)

More Religion

PODCAST + RSS FEEDS
Podcast RSS

Religion

Fresh Air from WHYY



religion
A Leading Figure In The New Apostolic Reformation
C. Peter Wagner, a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation, discusses the movement and its missions.
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 03:15 am:   

GAPAA – TRANSFER PAYMENTS AS ATTACK

Friends,

Once again I was trying to avoid posting today. I enjoy posting but I've already spent too much time at my desk. And once again I found an article that was too compelling to avoid. In my daily reading today I probably saw 20 articles that were examples of government and politics as attack. Once you recognize the dynamic you'll see it everywhere. I clipped out seven, I think. The one below my sign-off doesn't need much comment. It's from Investor's Business Daily and written by Walter Williams, whom I've copied before. He's an economist on the faculty of George Mason University. See more about him here:
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/

As we go on I'll try to make the point that almost all transfer payments are attack. They look like compassion but they're actually attack. As ACIM students we should recognize this as typical ego veiling of the truth. I don't claim to have proven that point, and I don't claim that the editorial below proves that point. My experience was that I had to see thousands of "dots" before the picture started to become clear. So here Williams gives us some dots to think about.

Once again I'll point out that the article below shows the value of a good print editorial. Good editorials make connections between actual news items that would occur in hundreds or thousands of separate articles. As we know, making connections is a right mind function, and failing to make connections is an ego function. Also I'll point out that you can't / don't /won't get this kind of depth or quality on TV or radio, and although it occurs on the web, in actual practice you probably won't initially encounter it there. Where you will actually find this kind of quality is actual ink on actual paper, as long as you don't waste your reading time on periodicals that are primarily devoted to brainwashing.

One passage that I'll point out from the editorial below is this: "It's a matter of not simply what's good or bad for the beneficiaries but what its effect is on society at large and the welfare of a nation." I think that's a good point, but I would go farther by saying two things. First, whether we're trying to weigh what is good or bad for the beneficiaries or for society at large, we're trying to judge the EFFECTS of policies. As ACIM students we know that trying to make these kinds of judgments is something we should be careful about. Second, the question that IS ALMOST NEVER ASKED regarding government policy BUT SHOULD ALWAYS BE ASKED FIRST is: "is the means that we intend to use inherently wrong in and of itself?" My conclusion in this particular case is that when the means is transfer payments then the means is always (or almost always) inherently wrong because it is always (or almost always) inherently attack. So although we can see that the ultimate result of transfer payments is destructive, we would be better off to actually never get to a point where we have to see the results, because we can see that the means is attack and avoid the policy altogether.

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart



source: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/586004/201109261723/Tax-Hikes-A re-No-Way-To-Fix-Budget-Deficits.aspx

Tax Hikes Are No Way To Fix Budget Deficits

By WALTER E. WILLIAMS

Posted 09/26/2011 05:23 PM ET

What's the common thread between Europe's financial mess, particularly among the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain), and the financial mess in the U.S.?

That question could be more easily answered if we asked instead: What's necessary to cure the financial mess in Europe and the U.S.?

If European governments and the U.S. Congress ceased the practice of giving people what they have not earned, budgets would be more than balanced.

For government to guarantee a person a right to goods and services he has not earned, it must diminish someone else's right to what he has earned, simply because governments have no resources of their very own.

The first order of business in reaching a solution to the financial mess in Europe and the U.S. must be the recognition that governments have been doing a class of unsustainable things, mostly giving people special privileges and things that they have not earned.

It's a matter of not simply what's good or bad for the beneficiaries but what its effect is on society at large and the welfare of a nation.

Take the understandably humane motivation to provide health care services for the medically indigent. If one is concerned about the health needs of a person, why shouldn't the government also provide him with resources for nutrition? Good health is not just medical services and food but a decent place to live.

Furthermore, good health is a matter of not just physical well-being but mental well-being as well, so why not have government-sponsored vacations? That's not such a far-fetched idea as one might imagine.

Antonio Tajani, the European commissioner for industry and entrepreneurship, has declared vacationing to be a "human right."

Growing social spending in the name of health is just one example of a much larger process affecting the whole of our societies.

There's a process that we might call contagion, in which spending automatically and unavoidably breeds more spending.

For example, if government provides subsidies for wheat farmers, corn farmers will organize and protest that it's unfair not to grant them subsidies.

What case can be made for government's not granting subsidies to all farmers?

Then there's contagion across borders. If European farmers get subsidies, American farmers are going to demand subsidies to "even the playing field."

How about government bailouts? There's contagion there as well.

If Congress bails out General Motors, what's the justification for not also bailing out Chrysler and JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Fannie Mae, AIG, Citigroup and other failed enterprises?

Bailouts are contagious both in the short and the long run. Bailouts create what's known as a moral hazard, in which people have reduced incentive to mend their ways.

The bottom line is that the sole tendency of the welfare state is for it to grow and consume more and more of a nation's income.

According to "Measuring the Unfunded Obligations of European Countries" (January 2009), by the Dallas-based National Center for Policy Analysis, by 2050, the average EU country will need more than 60% of its gross domestic product to fulfill its obligations.

According to the 2008 Social Security and Medicare trustees reports, the combined unfunded liability of just these two government programs has reached $101.7 trillion in today's dollars.

It turns out that if Congress taxed away our entire $14 trillion 2011 GDP and put it in the bank, it would just barely cover Social Security and Medicare liabilities.

That observation suggests that we can't tax our way out of our fiscal mess.

In order to avoid permanent stagnation or total economic collapse, governments must start the process of reducing welfare spending.

I wouldn't recommend cold turkey for a heroin addict, neither would I recommend cold turkey for all those people who have been addicted and made dependent upon government handouts. We must find a compassionate way to wean people off government.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert Lester (Robert_l)
Username: Robert_l

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:21 am:   

Greetings To All.

Bart, I read with much interest your post of Monday, September 26, 2011 - 01:13 am. I also had given much thought to the government requirement that Social Security Taxes be taken from my check many years ago.

I did a bit of research on two things mentioned in your post. 1)The assertion that the Amish are exempt from the Social Security system I think needs some clarification. "Self-employed Amish do not pay Social Security tax. Those employed by non-Amish employers DO PAY Social Security tax. The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to Social Security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed." - This comes from the following website - http://www.holycrosslivonia.org/amish/amishfaq.htm
It appears to me that if ANY religious group (the Amish are not the only religious group that does not participate in SS. Other religious groups like the Anabaptists would qualify for this exemption) as long as they can prove that they take care of their own can apply for this exemption.

2) Your statement that "There is one other group that is exempt from Social Security. Your
congressmen and senators don't pay into it. They forced the program on all the rest of us and exempted themselves." This statement is no longer valid. It is not true that members of congress don't pay into Social Security. It's been required of them since 1983, according to Andrew G. Biggs, Social Security Analyst for the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C.

Believe me, I am not a government apologist but I felt clarification on those points were needed.

With Peace Profound.
RIL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 01:13 am:   

SOCIAL SECURITY AS AN EXAMPLE OF GAPAA

Friends,

Once again I was hoping to avoid posting on this thread today, and once again in my daily reading I encountered an article that was too compelling to leave until later. It's from www.investors.com, which is the website of the newspaper Investors Business Daily. The author is Walter E. Williams, an economist on the faculty of George Mason University. See more about him here:
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/
Most of the article is about the past of Social Security, and I was going to let it slide because I'm not as interested in the past as I am in the present, until I came across the following:

"Aside from these lies, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
The major difference between Social Security and Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme is his was illegal.
Three Nobel laureate economists have testified that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Dr. Paul Samuelson called it 'the greatest Ponzi game ever contrived.' Dr. Milton Friedman said it was 'the biggest Ponzi scheme on earth.'
Dr. Paul Krugman predicted that 'the Ponzi game will soon be over.'

So I decided to post here because it ties in with what I wrote yesterday. Yesterday I wrote "Most of us have probably never thought of the retirement aspect of Social Security as a form of attack, but in fact that is what it is and the only thing that it is." I said that as an introduction and without any supporting explanation. Likewise Williams in his article doesn't provide supporting explanation, but as an economist he can certainly claim the expertise to do so, plus he mentions that three Nobel laureate economists have also called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. For those who aren't familiar with the term "Ponzi scheme", it identifies a particular type of fraudulent and illegal financial scheme. The difference between illegal private Ponzi schemes and Social Security is that no one is forced to engage in illegal private Ponzi schemes – only private individuals who make their own free choice to invest get trapped in them. On the other hand, with Social Security, millions of voters use the police power of the government (i.e., police with their numbers and their guns, and the courts and prisons that back them up) to force millions of other citizens to submit to this attack. It's not too hard to identify what's going on here as one segment of society (those who support Social Security) using government to force conflict upon another segment of society (those who are unwillingly forced to contribute to Social Security). If this is not oppression of the mouse by the elephant then nothing is – see the quote by Desmond Tutu below. At this point a few ACIM Workbook lesson titles come to mind:
"Let me not bind your Son with laws I made." OrEd.WkBk.277
"Fear binds the world. Forgiveness sets it free." OrEd.WkBk.332
"Forgiveness ends the dream of conflict here." OrEd.WkBk.333

Yesterday I tried to make the point that the ways that we use government as an instrument of attack are "vast" and "unconscious". The "vast" theme is echoed by the two Nobel laureate economists who called it 'the greatest Ponzi game ever contrived' and 'the biggest Ponzi scheme on earth.' The "unconscious" theme should be obvious because most of us seldom or never think about the fact that what our government is doing in this case is wrong in every possible sense of the word.

I want to draw attention to the line "The major difference between Social Security and Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme is his was illegal." Governments make many laws against specific activities – activities that overtly harm other people. For example, governments make laws against assault, rape, burglary, and Ponzi schemes. But the ego still wants to attack, so it turns the tables. Instead of allowing government to exist primarily as a barrier against attack, it engages government as the means of attack. That way government can do what the private individual ego would like to do but is prohibited from doing by many factors, including government. This brings to mind the concept from ACIM that the ego and the Holy Spirit may use the same tools, but they use them for different purposes.

There is a group that identified Social Security as wrong a long time ago. The Amish are exempt from Social Security. I don't know when they obtained their exemption, but apparently they understood "I place the future in the hands of God" (OrEd.WkBk.194 title) before ACIM was written. They complained that Social Security was a violation of their religious principles and being forced to participate was therefore a violation of their religious freedom. So Congress passed a law granting all Amish an exemption from Social Security. How many of us knew that? I'm still wondering how it is that one religious group can get exempted, but no one else can get exempted. My religion is not as big or organized as the Amish, and it doesn't even take a stand against Social Security as an organizational policy, but I have my own spiritual and religious beliefs, and Social Security is a violation of them. I guess the Amish got favoritism because they were big and organized. I'm sure Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Madison would understand that if they were around today.

"Big and organized" is actually the reason why Social Security has endured in its current form. The elderly (think AARP) have long comprised one of the biggest and most organized voting blocks in the USA. Their policy for at least thirty years has been "you have money, we want your money, there are enough of us to require the government to seize it from you by force and transfer it to us, and we won't let government address the fact that the system is broken". This is in some ways similar to slavery in the USA. Might makes right. We, the slave trading and slave holding industry, are bigger and more organized than you, the individual slaves, so we take your freedom from you. I'm sure Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglass would understand Social Security pretty well that if they were around today.

There is one other group that is exempt from Social Security. Your congressmen and senators don't pay into it. They forced the program on all the rest of us and exempted themselves. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

There's a whole lot more wrong with Social Security than the facts that it's a Ponzi scheme, that one religious group get's special preference, and that our congressmen exempted themselves. These are just the tip of the iceberg. I'll try to post more later.

The final thing I would add is that if you are surprised to see that the Amish are exempt from Social Security, or you are surprised to see that three Nobel laureate economists have called it a Ponzi scheme, or you are surprised to see that a hard left liberal economist (Krugman) also called it a Ponzi scheme, it might be because of where you are getting your news. It's just my opinion, but I have believed for a long time that you can't effectively get real news from TV or radio. I also don't think you can get it from the internet. I copied this from the internet but I found it in a print edition. My opinion is that that if you want to know what is happening in the world, if you want to get out of attacking your brothers and sisters with your votes, you have to get your fingers dirty reading actual ink on actual paper.

As an ACIM student I look in the mirror and ask, "Is it consistent with my spiritual path to force conflict upon my brothers? Is it consistent with my spiritual path to vote for candidates who bind one segment of our population into deprivation in order to reward a larger segment of the population that votes for them and contributes to their campaigns? Is it consistent with my spiritual path to remain ignorant of what my votes are doing?"

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart



source: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/ArticlePrint.aspx?id=585382

Gov't Lies About Social Security Hide The Fraud

By WALTER E. WILLIAMS

Posted 09/20/2011 05:52 PM ET

During the recent GOP presidential debate, Texas Gov. Rick Perry said that Social Security is a "monstrous lie" and a "Ponzi scheme."

More and more people are coming to see that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, but is it a lie, as well? Let's look at it.

Here's what the 1936 government pamphlet on Social Security said:

"After the first 3 years — that is to say, beginning in 1940 — you will pay, and your employer will pay, 1.5 cents for each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year. ... Beginning in 1943, you will pay 2 cents, and so will your employer, for every dollar you earn for the next 3 years. ... And finally, beginning in 1949, twelve years from now, you and your employer will each pay 3 cents on each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year."

Here's Congress' lying promise: "That is the most you will ever pay."

Another lie in the Social Security pamphlet is: "Beginning November 24, 1936, the United States government will set up a Social Security account for you. ... The checks will come to you as a right."

Therefore, Americans were sold on the belief that Social Security is like a retirement account and money placed in it is our property.

The fact of the matter is you have no property right whatsoever to your Social Security "contributions." You say, "Williams, you're wrong! We have a right to Social Security payments."

It's Not 'Insurance'

In a U.S. Supreme Court case, Helvering v. Davis (1937), the court held that Social Security is not an insurance program, saying, "The proceeds of both (employee and employer) taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like internal revenue taxes generally, and are not earmarked in any way."

In a later Supreme Court case, Flemming v. Nestor (1960), the court said, "To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of 'accrued property rights' would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever-changing conditions which it demands."

Belatedly, the Social Security Administration is trying to clean up its history of deception.

Its website (www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html) says, "Entitlement to Social Security benefits is not (a) contractual right," adding, "There has been a temptation throughout the program's history for some people to suppose that their FICA payroll taxes entitle them to a benefit in a legal, contractual sense. ... Congress clearly had no such limitation in mind when crafting the law."

That's the SSA's dishonesty. After all, it was the people in that administration who said, in their 1936 pamphlet, that "the checks will come to you as a right."

There's more deceit and dishonesty. In 1950, I was 14 years old and applied for a work permit for an after-school job. One of the requirements was to obtain a Social Security card.

In bold letters on my Social Security card are the words "For Social Security Purposes — Not For Identification." According to the SSA's website, "this legend was removed as part of the design changes for the 18th version of the card, issued beginning in 1972."

Other Fibs

That's a shameless, unadulterated lie. Because we're idiots, we're asked to believe that the sole purpose for the removal of "Not For Identification" was for design purposes.

The fact that our Social Security numbers were going to become a major identification tool had nothing to do with getting rid of the statement.

Aside from these lies, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

The major difference between Social Security and Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme is his was illegal.

Three Nobel laureate economists have testified that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

Dr. Paul Samuelson called it "the greatest Ponzi game ever contrived." Dr. Milton Friedman said it was "the biggest Ponzi scheme on earth."

Dr. Paul Krugman predicted that "the Ponzi game will soon be over."

Three cheers to Gov. Rick Perry for having the guts to tell us that Social Security is a monstrous lie and a Ponzi scheme.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 09:53 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


REV. JUDY: Thanks so much for your kind words. Noted and appreciated. I always post any substantive On-Line post to my Facebook profile and the CMC's Facebook page. It also gets "Tweeted" both from Rev. Tony's Twitter account and "Retweeted" through the CMC's Twitter account. It's already happened.

It's the new age of social media. We're on it.

By the way ... if one goes to our homepage you will see an icon in the top masthead section that's a little "Thumbs Up." You've all probably seen these popping up all over the place on the internet. It's a Facebook thing. By clicking on it you register a "Like." Facebook continually tallies these "Likes." The more "Likes" you have, the more inviting your information looks to web "surfers" who are checking things out. There is no obligation to "Liking" something. It doesn't increase any unwanted email.

If you have already "Liked" us you won't see the "Thumbs-Up" icon but a small box that is checked and says "Like." Don't click on that. Then you would be "Un-Liking" us and we don't want that.

If you haven't yet "Liked" the CMC please go to the Home Page and click on the Thumbs-Up icon (upper right). We currently have 53 "Likes" but we would "like" to get "Liked" even more.

http://www.miracles-course.org/joomla/


Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Judy Junghans (Judy)
Username: Judy

Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 08:57 pm:   

Dear All, I copied and pasted Rev. Tony's last post to an email to friends and family because I found it well written and a good representation of some of the thought system of ACIM. I hope some will be moved to look at the posts, maybe even be guided to join the group. Rev. Tony, you might want to post that on your Facebook page.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 03:12 pm:   

Tony,

I applaud your for the summary of your post. I read the projection of a TEACHER of GOD.

This quote...
""I am responsible for what I see.
I chose the feelings I experience, and I decided
on the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I asked for and received as I had asked." (OrEd.Tx.21.15)"

is often used by you, and others, in forms that frequently seem to a mistake for "creating." Creating is not related to responsibility as taught by ACIM. When I read, the quote, as the VOICE of GOD....what I get is...

I AM responsible, do NOT create what I see. I have the WILL of GOD to choose me "feelings." Ergo....in your examples I, would choose to feel LOVE. I AM responsible for what I see AND, as you point out in your summary BEING a RESPONSIBLE HUMAN-BEING I choose the goal of "Healing of the world as a TEACHER of GOD."

I am also frequently struck by the use of this quote...which seems to appear in communications centered around content of RIGHT-WRONG-JUDGEMENT....etc, negative affective reactivity.

"Do you prefer that you be right or happy?" (OrEd.Tx.29.43)

In your own share you use the word wrong. When I read this as the VOICE of GOD....I read prefer....CHOICE, perception, referencing the previous quote as one of "responsibility" and not creating. It is quite obvious to me, by its literal absence, we are not given an option to "prefer" wrong in choosing about our responsibilities as TEACHERS of God.

It often appears, to me, that our elected officials, the gov't and ALL human teachers of humans make mistakes of interpretations. Again, I applaud your summary which appears as more ACIM inspired guidance in this ACIM discussion forum to take responsibility for what we see as TEACHERS of GOD, project LOVE in the face of others creating/projecting images which disturb ones PEACE of mind.
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 03:04 pm:   

I HAVE A NEED TO UNDERSTAND … VASTER AND FAR MORE UNCONSCIOUS

Friends,

Judy wrote "I have a need to understand this", and to that I say "AMEN !" That is exactly the way I have felt ever since I first began to sense what is going on with regards to government and how the ego uses it to attack. I wrote "This is an example of how the ego uses government to inflict suffering. It's far vaster and far more unconscious than most of us would ever expect." At some point I began to realize, however dimly, that some huge portion of the manner in which the ego attacks is done in ways that have vast scale and which most of us are almost totally unconscious of. As I began to realize that, I began to feel intensely compelled to understand it. I think I used the word "obsessed" in one of my first posts on this topic. As I look back now, I feel certain that this intense need to understand what it is that we are doing to each other was actually how I experienced the Holy Spirit's guidance. I felt the same way about ACIM. When I first found it I was obsessed by it. I felt compelled to study, learn, and apply it. I'm still trying to learn and understand and apply ACIM, and I'm still trying to understand what it is that we are doing to each other.

Getting back to the idea that much of the attack that we do to each other is done in ways that are vast and largely unconscious, government economic policies are not the only example of this dynamic. In the future I'll try to show that other vast and largely unconscious ways that we use government to attack each other include policies such as the following:
Minimum wage laws
Public advantage in education.
Transfer payments (e.g. food stamps, the retirement aspect of Social Security, and welfare).
The criminalization of prosperity.
There are other government policies that the ego uses to attack on scales that are vast and mostly unconscious, but the four listed above are arguably among the most destructive policies, or put another way, among most effective means that the ego has for inflicting misery and suffering and destroying our lives. Most of us have probably never thought of the retirement aspect of Social Security as a form of attack, but in fact that is what it is and the only thing that it is. Most of us have never even thought of the term "criminalization of prosperity". These are examples of the fact that we are mostly unconscious. Most people, even professionals in economics and finance, never think of the fact that ruinous bear markets and deep economic recessions with their accompanying unemployment are due to deep credit contractions, which in turn are due to excessive credit expansions, which in turn are partly due to government policies; however, once you connect the dots you see that in fact that is the way things happen. The point of that last example is to illustrate that although we are mostly unconscious about the way we are attacking each other, it's actually not too hard to become conscious about these things. If we can become conscious about the dynamics that cause financial and economic disasters then we can become conscious about the dynamics of how minimum wage laws, public advantage in education, and transfer payments degrade society as a whole and therefore the lives of millions of individual people. Once you start working at it you find that it's easier than you expected. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not nearly as hard as understanding ACIM. If you're smart enough to be learning ACIM, you're much smarter than what it takes to become conscious about these topics.

As ACIM students it's interesting to note that although ACIM has many passages about how our thoughts are creating our experiences and how we need to change our thoughts to create better experiences, it always does so (as far as I know, Tony or anyone else correct me if I'm wrong) on the individual level. The fact is that we create experiences both on the individual level and on the collective level. For example, my thoughts individually affect the health or sickness of my body. The health or sickness of my body is my individual experience, and it's an example of the creative power of thought on an individual level. However, we do have collective experiences that can only be generated by collective thoughts. For example, our nation as a whole is at war against Al Quaeda, we all have the same rate of inflation, we all have the same Congress, and we all experience the same amount of federal government debt. Maybe the reason that ACIM doesn't speak much about changing things on a collective level is because the only way that we can change anything on a collective level is by changing individual minds one by one. At any rate, I am certain that we can't get out of attack upon each other until we learn how we are attacking on a collective level, such as through government.

Finally, I would like to mention that there are other ways, aside from through government, that the ego attacks in ways that are "vast and mostly unconscious". Among these I would mention degradation of the natural environment, the ubiquitous toxic assault upon our bodies that we experience throughout modern society, and spiritual ignorance. So I guess we have a lot of work to do, but hey, it's exciting, and it's more fun and rewarding than watching sitcoms or football on TV!

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
OrEd.Tx.13.50

"Whether it was me or my world, whether it was a total stranger or your worst enemy, you were a witness! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have stopped! It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have listened! You had an obligation to speak out!"
Babylon 5, Season Five, "The Very Long Night of Londo Molari"

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 02:10 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


EVERYONE: Yesterday over lunch at my favorite Chinese restaurant, Red Jade, I reread all the posts on this thread because I wanted to add my thoughts. I had opinions on just about everything posted. There are several points I would like to make at this juncture.

1) I have been firmly guided for some time to be very informed about government and politics. I read a fair amount and watch a good amount of political shows. While I have my favorites (those that seem to reflect my own views), I always try to watch shows and read articles that represent views that are very different from my typical ones. I try not to demonize anyone or any view. I am making an even greater attempt to do that for this next cycle of Presidential election discussions which will culminate in the election in November 2012.

However, I also make sure that I have visited my nation's capital in Washington DC, spent time there seeing the sights & buildings, and most importantly part of the visit is absorbing the energy of the place. I recently went to my state capital in Sacramento, CA. I went to the State Capital building where my state Senators and Representatives meet and vote on laws. I took the official tour. I walked through the Hall of Governors and, most importantly, I again took in and absorbed the energy of the place. I do this at the local level as well. San Francisco City Hall is an amazing, beautiful building and it's halls, chambers, rotunda, and museum are fabulous. I, periodically, tour City Hall and again get a good read on the energy.

I perceive the money that I spend in taxes as money I spend "buying" something. I want to see the product I have "bought" since I have a direct say in how this product evolves. I want to make sure I get a good value for my dollar. If I was purchasing a new car I'd spend a long time looking at the car, opening the hood, reading the specs, talking to informed sales people, "kicking" the tires, and taking it out for a test drive. People have strong views about government and politics but have never visited the seats of government. This is only getting part of the picture and perhaps not the most important part -- the real energy of the spaces. The energy of the spaces actually changes the people who we send there. Every candidate that is first elected has never spent a large amount of time in the place where he/she is going to do their job. The energy of those places changes the newly elected candidates. Every wonder why newly elected officials change so much once they are in office? They are energetically changed by the spiritual vibration of the space where they go to live and work. I guarantee you that if you all would spend time at your seats of government and take in the important information on all levels, your views on all issues political will change.

2) I'd like to comment on choosing people to vote for. It is generally thought that we choose the candidate who has the views that most reflect how we feel and how we want to see our government evolve. Certainly I understand the importance of this, but again for me it is not the most important piece. I have lived long enough to know (I'm 59) that newly elected candidates frequently (usually) change their views and directions once in office. Sometimes these changes are dramatic - full 180 degree changes. No candidate can predict the future and no candidate can honestly tell you what he/she will do once he/she is in office. There has to be other criteria that are more important for choosing candidates. Again, for me, it's an energy issue. How centered and peaceful does the candidate feel? Here's another extremely important thing for me, how much does the candidate believe in personal responsibility versus the tendency to want to blame "others" for the problems.

"I am responsible for what I see.
I chose the feelings I experience, and I decided
on the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I asked for and received as I had asked." (OrEd.Tx.21.15)


I want the most spiritually enlightened person in office -- not necessarily the one who has views that reflect mine. I also do not want to delude myself into thinking that if political views reflect mine then these candidates obviously ARE the most enlightened. That evaluation is always with my ego's involvement. I have strong views, but I don't need to be "right" about them. I may be very "wrong." "Am I willing to be wrong?" is one of the most important questions we should be asking ourselves. If I am not willing to be wrong than something is definitely NOT RIGHT!

"Do you prefer that you be right or happy?" (OrEd.Tx.29.43)


"Remember how many times you thought you knew all the 'facts' you needed for judgment, and how wrong you were! Is there anyone who has not had this experience? Would you know how many times you merely thought you were right, without ever realizing you were wrong? Why would you choose such an arbitrary basis for decision-making?" (OrEd.Mn.10.4)


3) The most important part about Presidential elections, for me, is that the entire nation is having one conversation. It brings the country together in a dialogue. I hear a lot about how polarizing politics is and how polarized everything is in America right now. I hear it said that it has never been this "bad." I don't see it that way at all. What I see is American having a discussion and the very fact that we are having this discussion at all is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. I have never seen this much enthusiasm and engagement. My perception is that it has never been this GOOD!" I grew up in an era of voter apathy. I grew up in an era when people thought they had no influence at all on government. A mass of people felt disenfranchised and marginalized. Now I see people totally embracing the idea that they have a tremendous effect on government and many, many want to get involved. What could be better than that?

4) When I look at society and feel it's energy what I feel is that many, many people are scared. Scared people make bad decisions.

"[The idea of sacrifice] arises solely from fear. This is particularly unfortunate because frightened people are apt to be vicious." (OrEd.Tx.3.21)


Good government policy is always policy that reduces fear. People are afraid that they will not have the money that they need to pay for their needs and desired comforts. People are afraid that they will get sick and be bankrupted by medical costs -- regardless of whether they have health insurance of not. Some people are afraid that our society's greater acceptance of gay people has caused God to send the plaques of bad economy, earthquakes, and hurricanes upon us.

There is a huge political discussion revolving around whether government should insure basic health needs and costs for people. Many governments around the world do this. Many governments do not. This is a very hotly debated issue and scares a lot of people on both sides of the discussion. However I, as an A Course In Miracles student, know that true health comes from an alignment with spiritual truth, not from what health plan and insurance I choose. I believe ACIM gives us a mighty tool in keeping our physical bodies healthy. I know that within our ACIM community this also is a hotly debated idea. However, I am merely stating my views. I think the best thing we can do in the health care debate is strengthen our own belief in the natural health that will come from knowing Who and What we truly are and be a demonstration of that for people everywhere.

"The body is in need of no defense. This cannot be too often emphasized. It will be strong and healthy if the mind does not abuse it by assigning it to roles it cannot fill, to purposes beyond its scope, and to exalted aims which it cannot accomplish." (OrEd.WkBk.135.8)


In my mind, the current debate over health care is fundamentally wrong on both sides. The right side of the debate is to reinforces the truth of where health really comes from and not planning the best defense which only entrenches the problem.

5) There seems to be a notion that if given the choice, many people will be lazy, unproductive, societal leeches. "YECK!" What an awful idea, and I have no field evidence to reinforce this. What I see is that when people recognize that they actually DO have a choice they will choose to be hard working, productive people, who continually want to give back to society and help those who appear to be in need. Many policies are enacted to protect us from these defined drains on society -- the leeches. The efforts should be made to instill in people inherent, immutable, self worth. Our government should be reinforcing the truth that deep inside every human is a Divine spark of Life, Love and Spirit. Even atheists find ways to align with this idea. When people have self worth they automatically want to be productive, hard working, and societal assets. This isn't legislated by policy. It is communicated through energy and ideas. A government that fundamentally does not believe in the good of it's people is a bad and dangerous government.

6) Personally, I don't think the important question is big government versus small government. And on close examination a lot of so called small government candidates aren't small government candidates at all. Many of them think that if you shift programs and control from the Federal government to the State government that you are for small government. Where is the logic here? This is just a shifting of government from the Federal level to the State level. It's not reducing the size of anything. As I said, I've been to our State Capital and toured the government buildings. (Have you?) There's no question in my mind that this is Big Government. For me, to focus on government BEING the problem is to miss the problem. If government is the problem the problem is external. Can there be any more fundamental ACIM principle other than there is nothing external.

"There is nothing outside you. That is what you must ultimately learn, for it is in the realization that the Kingdom of Heaven is restored to you." (OrEd.Tx.18.49)


The socialist policies of President Obama are not the problem. Conservative religious fundamentalists who want to push through a conservative social agenda are not the problem. Big government is not the problem. Radical Islamic fundamentalists are not the problem. Totally insane monetary policies are not the problem. (I've already weighed in on this one earlier in this thread.) All of these things are SYMPTOMS. There is no healing in focusing on, and moving around the symptoms.

The problem is that WE don't know that we are Divine, infinite, eternal creations and that we are filled with all the power, light, and glory of the abundant universe! And I said "WE". The problem isn't that the mass of society doesn't know this. The problem is that WE don't know this. The problem is not external to us, because there is no external. When we know it, we will see the world know it. When the world knows it, governments will know it. When governments know it, policy will be Divinely guided and legislation will be enlightened. From Divinely guided legislation more fundamental, immutable self worth will be communicated to the people. The world will wake up ... and it all started with us and our own internal work.

Government is not outside us. Government is us.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Judy Junghans (Judy)
Username: Judy

Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 12:17 am:   

Dear All, I did not mean it to be just financial advice as much as Course related thinking regarding the way things are going. I will take the time tomorrow to read all the posts so far. I have a need to understand this.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 10:59 pm:   

Friends,

I endorse what Tony said -- no matter how important financial advice might be, this is not the place for it.

A couple of questions have been passed to me via Tony. As long as Tony is OK with doing that, I'm OK with trying to respond. But please be patient with me as I'm usually pressed for time.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 05:27 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


REV. JUDY: We can't use the ACIM OnLine Discussion Group for financial advice. It's not appropriate in this context. I will ask Bart not to respond in this forum.

If you want to communicate with Bart privately -- that's a different matter. I appreciate your concern but ... we're not a financial advice forum.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 05:06 am:   

CONNECTING UNEXPECTED DOTS

Friends,

I was going to try to get through a day without posting on this thread, and then I came across a compelling quote in my daily reading. As I said before, I read examples of GAPAA (government and politics as attack) many times every day during my reading. Anyone who reads also sees the same thing, but because they haven't learned to connect the dots they don't realize that the essential causative factor in the human suffering that they are reading about is very often (at least in the West) government. Once you learn to connect the dots you'll see government as the causative agent in a huge portion of man-made problems that occur in the West. So part of what I'm trying to do in this thread is to illustrate how some of the dots connect.

Background information is that stock markets worldwide were down hard Wednesday. A few weeks ago when stocks were down hard some of us were speculating about the reason and attributing it to fear. Having been in finance for over two decades and having been in the ACIM, New Age, and New Thought movements for longer than that, I have often heard or read that financial and economic downturns are due to fear. On one level that's correct, but there's not anything useful that can be done with that correct answer.

It's like saying the reason I ran away from the swarm of angry hornets was because I was afraid they were going to sting me. It's true but useless. The useful answer would be the answer to the question "how can I free myself from my addiction to throwing rocks at hornets nests?"

When investors realize that a market is priced far above its actual value, then they realize that the only possible outcome is that prices are going to fall, and since they will lose money if they remain invested, they experience fear and sell. So in this case fear and selling go hand in hand, and you could say that the fear caused the selling, and it's hard to argue with that conclusion. However, having that conclusion in hand, there's nothing useful that we can do with it. If we had the answer as to why the market became vastly overpriced in the first place and how to avoid markets becoming vastly overpriced, then we could use those answers to enable us to avoid ruinous bear markets.

A good example is the recent history of the Nasdaq 100 index. In March of 2000 the Nasdaq 100 was priced at over 4,800. Then it had a calamitous fall to under 1,000 in late 2002. For the past ten years the Nasdaq 100 has spent only a few months above 2,000. Today it closed at 2,184, and since that is near the highest level seen in the past ten years, we can take that as a generous estimate of the actual value of the Nasdaq 100 at the current time. Based on that, we can determine conclusively that the actual value of the Nasdaq 100 in March of 2000 was somewhere between 730 and 900. That's not a guess, it's a mathematical fact, but since this is a discussion group on ACIM and not on finance, I won't go into the math. The point is that we can state as a mathematical and financial fact that in March of 2000 the Nasdaq was priced at somewhere between 5.3 times its actual value and 6.6 times its actual value. When markets become that overvalued, the only possible outcome is a collapse accompanied by fear and enormous amounts of hardship endured by millions of people. The point I want to make here is that there's a connection between 1) the losses and hardship, and 2) deliberate policies enacted on purpose by government, and 3) our spiritual path.

Markets are not economies, but there are similarities. Bull markets have natural healthy lifetimes. Government policies can cause them to extend beyond their natural healthy lifetimes. When bull markets do extend beyond their natural healthy lifetimes, the only possible result is a bear market that, instead of being mild and harmless, is catastrophic and ruinous. Likewise, economic expansions have natural healthy lifetimes. Government policies can cause them to extend beyond their natural healthy lifetimes. When economic expansions do extend beyond their natural healthy lifetimes, the only possible result is a recession or depression that, instead of being mild and almost harmless, is catastrophic and ruinous.

Here's the quote that prompted this post. It's from Elliott Wave Financial Forecast Short Term Update, 9/22/2011 page 4. www.elliottwave.com
"Also note that the precious metals — gold and silver — were down sharply in conjunction with stocks, as were commodities (CRB index) and oil. There's an old market adage that in times of crisis all correlations move to +1. This is certainly true. But what appears unique to the current period is that the rallies have also tended to trend together. This behavior is consistent with EWI's all-the-same-market theory and indicates that the expansion and contraction of credit remains at the heart of current market dynamics. In this scenario, the U.S. Dollar should rally strongly, which, so far, it has."

The important point to allow us to connect the dots and understand how economics, markets, government, and ACIM tie together in this case is this: "the expansion and contraction of credit remains at the heart of current market dynamics." At some point in the 20th century governments took on a role that they had never taken before, which was the prevention of economic recessions. Stated in terms of US law, one of the roles assigned to the Federal Reserve is to keep the economy at full employment. As with most government policies the stated intention is benevolent. However, the only possible outcome of pursuing a government policy of keeping the economy at full employment is ruinous devastation wreaked upon entire populations. We generally don't realize that because as ACIM tells us, the ego doesn't make connections. Getting back to the quote, the way that government tries to keep economies at full employment is by continuous expansion of debt and credit. This actually does work, but it only works for a limited period of time. It's like a man being on the ground floor of a high-rise building that catches fire, and instead of walking out the door, he runs up the steps to the second floor. When the fire reaches the second floor the man runs up the steps to the third floor. And so on until he reaches the top floor. When the fire reaches the top floor he jumps out the window and the long fall to the ground kills him. But all along he could have just walked out the door on the ground floor. So credit and debt are like markets and economies – they can be driven by government policy to continue expanding beyond a natural healthy period. When that happens, the only possible result is a credit contraction that instead of being mild and almost harmless is catastrophic and ruinous.

That is exactly the dynamic that is happening right now, and as the quote showed us, the fall in markets is merely a symptom of the inevitable contraction of credit. And you and I are the ones who for decades have been electing the officials who 1) have enshrined in law and consistently supported the policies that cause the boom-bust cycle to happen, and 2) are too distracted by too many improper duties and improper policies to even have a clue as to what it is that they are doing and causing. This is an example of how the ego uses government to inflict suffering. It's far vaster and far more unconscious than most of us would ever expect. In the current case it comes from essentially two sources: first, declared and overt government policies of preventing recessions (which is the same as maintaining full employment), and second, government officials being too distracted and too mentally scattered to realize what it is that they are doing. Now this may seem more complex and more concrete than what most ACIM students expect to encounter on this spiritual path. But the bottom line is that our path asks us to get out of attack, and we WILL NOT get out of attack until we start to understand issues like this, or in other words until we start to understand how it is that the ego uses government to attack everyone and everything.

As a final note, you can rest assured that almost no one in government understands the actual dynamics at work here. If they did they would be shouting it from the rooftops, Ben Bernanke would never have become chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan would not have lasted as long as he did in that role, and the entire dynamic would never happen because it would be widely understood throughout society. I wrote in an earlier post that sometimes specific issues reveal whether an officeholder's purpose for government is sociopathic. I believe that the politicians who show by their votes that they promote sociopathic policies are not going to be the ones who will eventually reach the ability to understand the sort of economic and financial dynamics at work here. I think only the ones who show by their votes that they oppose sociopathic policies will attain the ability to understand how to stop the dynamic of government creating economic disasters.

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
(OrEd.Tx.13.50)

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 12:57 am:   

A NOTE FROM CONFUCIUS

Friends,

Tony, Robert, Christine, Maria, Maz, and Barbara: thanks so much for your posts. Maz thanks for helping out with the definition that was asked for. Barbara thanks for the encouraging words. We all have our own styles of learning, and I know my posts annoy some people, so it helps me a lot when I read that some of you benefit from them. Each of you posted something that I feel deserves a thoughtful response. It takes a lot more time and energy to give a thoughtful response than to post something brand new. Tonight I'm going to post something new since I'm pressed for time, and later I'll try to respond to the thoughts that you all presented.

A lot of what I expect to post in the future, and some of what I have already posted, revolves around the idea that we are trying to get government to do way too much, that much of what government does has harmful effects, and that regardless of how we evaluate the effects, the means employed to achieve the ends are often fundamentally wrong in and of themselves. So politically I lean towards less government, and now my bias is out in the open. But there are some things that I think government should do and must do well.

Reading today's Honolulu Star Advertiser I came across an article entitled "State unable to give count of children who die in foster care". It included this: "In the latest fiscal year, 1,299 children on average per month were in Hawaii's foster care system, meaning they had been physically removed [from their former guardians, usually parents I suppose] and were in the custody of the state …" This reminded me that one thing that I believe that government must do is to take responsibility for the safety of the helpless, especially children. When parents prove that they are a danger to their children, then society as a whole, in other words the government, must step in to protect the children.

Then I read Investor's Business Daily from Thursday September 15, 2011, and saw the headline "Europe's Banks Face Mounting Worries". This reminded me that another thing that I believe government must do is to effectively regulate the banking system. This is certainly not as obvious to the average reader as the concept of protecting children. In my almost 30 years studying finance and my almost 23 years working in finance, one thing that I've learned is that, unless they are properly regulated by the government, the banks will destroy the financial system and the economy about once every 40 to 80 years, causing profound hardship to untold millions of people. The current situation of Europe's banks, and the fact that the USA had to rescue the banking system at the cost of trillions of dollars of taxpayer debt, show that current governments on both sides of the Atlantic have been failing for quite some time with regards to effectively regulating the banks.

Then I came across this quote from Confucius: "If you try to do too much, you will not achieve anything."

As I've been thinking about how the ego employs government as a device to attack everyone in general, one of the things that I've realized is that every time government takes on a function that it should not do in the first place, the representatives, presidents, governors, and other officials have their attention further divided and therefore further distracted from focusing on the things that government really should do. This might sound obvious, but as we go on I will try to make the case that government is failing almost completely on certain very important tasks that it should do. Regulating the banking system is perhaps one of the best examples. Once we see the magnitude of the harm that comes from these failures, then we realize how vital it is that our government officials not be distracted by tasks that they never should be involved with in the first place.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Barbara Soldera (Barbara)
Username: Barbara

Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 01:38 pm:   

Robert: ”At this point I am leaning towards not participating because I am not sure that either party will be able to save us from ourselves with all of their promises. I would certainly welcome other opinions on this topic because I feel it is so important and I appreciate your starting this thread”


Save us from ourselves, I love that line Robert. It says so much. First of all, it assumes we need saving and “they” can do it. What a laugh. Secondly, the notion that we are dependent upon outside forces discourages personal responsibility, it gives people someone/thing to blame for all the “bad” things that happen.

Politics is so heavily influenced by ego that it cannot effectively address any of our human problems.

I used to love politics and I followed it quite closely. Since finding ACIM it doesn’t feel right any more. I try to focus on being in the world and not of the world. At this point in my personal journey I am guided to keep my attention within. Perhaps this will change but until then, I’m not participating in the process.

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
(OrEd.Tx.13.50)

Thanks for posting this, it’s one of my favorites and for me, it explains SO MUCH.

Bart I am getting used to your style. I have to say, I enjoy your posts even if I do not always choose to participate in the discussions.

My current assessment on the state of things is that We (the big we, everyone) have created this mess. Since we are co-creators, able to define, decide and direct our reality here on earth, it is our mass consciousness’ focus on economic crisis, hardship, scarcity, and lack that has gotten us here. The effort should be made on the part of each of us to help shift the consciousness. If we create our reality, why are we creating this particular reality?

After hearing my favorite teacher challenge us with his statement, “either you believe this sh*t or you don’t” I decided that I DO believe it and proceeded to start walking talk. Early this year, after some soul searching, I finally left a secure job that I had for seven years. Everyone said I was crazy and told me that jobs were scarce. People were convinced I had made a huge mistake. I took some time to listen and let spirit guide me as to what was next. I knew what I wanted, something closer to home, better pay and to be surrounded by people who were passionate about their work and went about it joyfully. That’s the message I sent out to the universe. I did my part, I searched, prepared myself and interviewed prospective employers. Within a few months I found a new job, close to home and with a substantial increase in salary. So we can create good things or bad things. There’s so much fear out there that I wonder if we will be able to turn this around.

I’m also convinced that We have a very unhealthy attitude towards money. Too many people believe that money is their source. That IMO, is the biggest part of the problem.

You are the light!
Barbara
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:35 am:   

Hi Friends,

Pardon me for jumping in. I just checked with the dictionary and find the following definition for sociopath: ' a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.'

Christine :"when I read "sociopath" I am triggered in all realms of my being."

What do you think of "conversational guidance for students of ACIM" when Jesus uses terms like

- murderer
- deceiver
- betrayer of faith
- secret enemy
- scavenger
- destroyer
- worshipper of death
- enemy
- tyrant
- idolator
- insane dreamer
- denier of truth, etc etc

As far as I can see, these are descriptors for *behavior* or for certain attributes of human behavioral phenomena, not for any Soul and member of the Sonship.

If I may ask: What, in 'all realms of your being' is triggered by the use of the word 'sociopath' within the context of the topic?

Thanks, and happy trails,

maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:11 am:   

Goodmorning ALL,

Robert nice to "see" you here! I, personally, am not one who is drawn to such as the focus of this thread, however, I did open it this morning and was struck by the word "sociopath" in the content.

Bart, when I read "sociopath" I am triggered in all realms of my being. Would you be kind enough to clarify your personal, meaning, purpose, use, function of the word symbol "sociopath" as conversational guidance for students of ACIM?
Respectfully,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert Lester (Robert_l)
Username: Robert_l

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 10:33 am:   

Greetings To All:

Bart, after reading your post entitled; AN EXAMPLE OF GAPAA, #3 of September 21, 2011 – 12:26 am, you seem to be making some judgments based on how you and those who agree with that train of thought, feel this economic/jobs bill should be handled. Unfortunately for me, economics is not my strong suit as I am sure it is not for most people. On the other hand, you, having pursued an MBA degree have much more knowledge about economic issues than I and most others. But your description of those politicians who oppose or support the proposed legislation is of concern to me. What makes your belief that a sociopathic side of this or any particular issue is how YOU think it is? According to your “metaphorical political litmus test(s)” your decisions on which way to vote become pretty easy.

I like the way you offer quotes from ACIM to support your views especially the following one; "… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does." OrEd.Tx.9.15. Could it be that your describing some political views as “sociopathic” is not an example of this ego tactic that ACIM warns of about? I admire your offering your expertise on economic matters of which I am unaware or not conscious of and the route you take to explain your position and your description of our brothers is your choice.

With Peace Profound.
Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 12:26 am:   

AN EXAMPLE OF GAPAA, #3

Friends,

Below my sign-off I have copied an editorial from www.investors.com, which is the website of the newspaper Investors Business Daily. The editorial discusses a law recently proposed by President Obama.

There are many ramifications of the proposed law that may not be immediately obvious. One day soon I hope to post some commentary on it.

This is an interesting editorial for many reasons. One thing this brings to mind is that some government decisions occur on a spectrum of possible choices, and reasonable people could differ on the right decision. For example, how much should the local school district spend, on average, to educate students in the current year? In other words, the total annual budget for the local school district divided by the total number of students in school. Perhaps the spectrum of possible choices might range from $3,000 per year to $12,000 per year. Reasonable people could differ on what is the best number to pick for a given school year. Again, how many fighter jets should the air force have? Reasonable people would differ on a number at some point on a spectrum of possible numbers. Other government decisions fall into a "yes or no" category, and sometimes an officeholder's choice of "yes" or "no" reveals what his purpose for government is. The proposed law in the example below presents that sort of choice. I would say that any officeholder who would propose or support this law, in fact any officeholder who would not vehemently oppose this law, has a secret agenda, and that agenda is that his purpose for government is to inflict suffering upon people. Of course he's probably not conscious of the fact that his purpose for government is to inflict suffering, but ACIM illustrates in many places that a characteristic of our insanity is that we aren't conscious of what our motivations are and what our egos are doing. Officeholders who would oppose the law reveal that their agenda is, at least in part, to prevent or reduce suffering. Robert and Maria posted about the difficulty of sometimes deciding how to vote. My experience has been that when there are "yes or no" choices as opposed to "spectrum" choices, and I see officeholders who consistently take the sociopathic side of the "yes or no" choice and other officeholders who consistently oppose the sociopathic side of the "yes or no" choice, then my decision becomes pretty easy when it's time to vote.

I think the editorial below also tells us a lot about the press. That is to say, I think that most of the popular press is mostly brainwashing, and any major new organization, whether TV or print, that doesn't make a feature article or editorial about the proposed law is at best incompetent but most probably a member of the brainwashing category.

Finally, the editorial below tells us something about the value of a good editorial page as opposed to the value of pure news articles. If this had been a pure news article, it probably would have been very short; furthermore, it is likely that few readers would begin to grasp the ramifications of the facts presented in a pure news article. It's best presented as an editorial in which the writer's bias is clear, and this is an example of the value of a good editorial page.

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30.87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

"… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does."
OrEd.Tx.9.15

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity. There is no area of your perception that it has not touched, and your dream is sacred to you."
(OrEd.Tx.13.50)

Love,

Bart




source: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/584703/201109131830/Jobs-Bill-F or-Lawyers.aspx

Jobs Bill For Lawyers

Posted 09/13/2011 06:30 PM ET

Litigation: Buried in the president's American Jobs Act is a provision that will do nothing to encourage hiring and much to discourage it. Unless, that is, you're a law firm looking for new ways to sue companies.

On a radio show recently, the president complained that companies are discriminating against the unemployed, and that this "makes absolutely no sense."

Leave it to Obama — someone with zero business experience — to lecture companies about what does and doesn't make sense when it comes to hiring. But what makes "no sense" is his charge that companies are "discriminating" against the unemployed in the first place.

Employers are looking for the most qualified person to fill a job, and often that will mean those who have the most up-to-date skills. That may be unfortunate for the unemployed, particularly the long-term unemployed, but it's the exact opposite of discrimination.

It also makes no sense to threaten companies that are already skittish about hiring anyone — unemployed or not — with still more potentially costly legal headaches if they actually do hire someone.

Still, Obama has shoved a provision into his jobs bill that would make it illegal for companies to discriminate against the unemployed, opening the door to a flood of costly, needless and ultimately job-killing legal actions.

As Charles Lane, an editorial writer at the Washington Post put it, this will "probably destroy jobs in a misguided effort to save them," adding that "plaintiffs' lawyers are no doubt dreaming up new ways to wield this new cause of action — make that class action — every time a company turns someone down for a job."

There's no doubt the country faces a serious and growing long-term unemployment problem. Thanks to Obama's ruinous economic policies, 6 million have been unemployed for more than 27 months — a figure more than twice the previous post-World War II high.

And as their skills grow increasingly stale, they will find it increasingly difficult to convince an employer to take a chance on them.

But the answer isn't to stimulate the nation's grievance industry and drum up more business for attorneys. It's to get the economy moving again. A fast-growing economy creates opportunities for everyone.

The last thing you want to do in today's economic doldrums is to give private companies yet another reason not to put out a "Help Wanted" sign.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 12:06 pm:   

Bart,

Thank you for starting this thread...

Robert, thank you for posting this morning...You wrote "At this point I am leaning towards not participating because I am not sure that either party will be able to save us from ourselves with all of their promises."

I am feeling the same way you do. Instead of placing my attention on politics, I am meditating more upon images of peace and healing from within, and at a global level. I love this quote "Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person."~Mother Teresa -

With Love and Gratitude,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert Lester (Robert_l)
Username: Robert_l

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:27 am:   

Greetings To All

Bart, your post of Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 03:15 am: AN EXAMPLE OF GAPAA, #2 resonated with me quite well. I moved to my present state of residence late in 2003. I did vote in the national elections of 2004. I did not vote in the state and local elections of 2006 because I knew which way my state was going to go.

I came across ACIM in either 2006 or early 2007 and so many things became clearer to me at that time. I was a bit confused after reading ACIM as to whether I should vote or not in the 2008 elections. My concern was not which way I should go, re: Republican or Democrat, but whether or not I should participate in a process which I had many questions about based on what I had gathered from ACIM. In my opinion it was not a matter of the candidate or party but who would control the spending of taxpayer money and for what.

Today, I read your post and the last paragraph which read; "At any rate, it seems to me that if we desire to stop overtly inflicting harm upon each other, we either have to understand the rudiments of economics (fat chance for me), or we have to abstain from participation in politics (something that I began seriously considering after my reading of ACIM).

At this point I am leaning towards not participating because I am not sure that either party will be able to save us from ourselves with all of their promises. I would certainly welcome other opinions on this topic because I feel it is so important and I appreciate your starting this thread.

With Peace Profound.
RIL


clipart{Robert}
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 03:15 am:   

AN EXAMPLE OF GAPAA, #2

Friends,

The following is copied from an email that I received today from the investment advisory service Weiss Research.
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/
Weiss Reseach is part of a family of companies run by Martin Weiss. Much of their research is available for free online, and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to understand the financial and economic trauma that has been gripping Western nations since at least 2008. They have accurately predicted every significant event in finance and economics, including all of the traumas, for as long as I can remember. In fact they have accurately predicted everything that has happened at least months, and in some cases years, before the events happened. The reason that they have been able to predict the events is because, unlike almost everyone on Wall Street, in government, in the media, and in academia, they understand the underlying causes.

The following is about the trauma in Europe, which currently is centered on the problems in Greece. I'm posting this here because it's an example of GAPAA, "government and politics as attack". There have been no exogenous causes to the current financial, economic, and social crisis in Europe. No natural catastrophe, no cutoff of natural resources like oil, etc. The causes are thousands of deliberate decisions made on a repetitive basis for many years. As ACIM students we can be certain that the right mind, or the Holy Spirit, does not cause crises, so we have to conclude that the ego caused these problems. Any analysis at all of the crisis shows that the overwhelming majority of the problem in Greece is a result of government action, which in this case was taking on too much debt. The reason Greece took on too much debt was the same reason that countries always take on too much debt during peacetime. The populace wanted to experience more ease and more wealth than what they could obtain by working, and they achieved that goal by borrowing money and spending that money for their own benefit, thereby creating a situation in which future taxpayers and citizens would suffer the consequences of the debt. As I wrote earlier, I can't understand how it would be possible for any sane person to understand this as anything but attack and nothing but attack. If I take out a loan to pay for my vacation, and Tony or Maria or Maz has to pay back the loan, I'm attacking Tony or Maria or Maz. Of course only government has the ability to perform this function. Another way to look at it is as an example of the quote that I posted yesterday from ACIM – the Greek government took on too much debt because it was trying to fulfill functions that don't belong to us at all. The results, which include not only economic hardship but "widespread rioting, looting and the firebombing of banks and government buildings" are now becoming apparent.

I think it's important for us to start to understand that one of the primary ways that we attack each other is by using government as an intermediary. To some extent understanding GAPAA involves understanding the rudiments of economics and finance, which can seem hard at first, especially because economics is essentially a lost science in most of the USA. I took introductory economics in college, and then I got a Masters in Business Administration majoring in finance with two required economics courses, and after I had done that I still didn't know much about economics or the relationship between economics and finance because academia had essentially "lost it" with regards to economics even back then. Then in my career I happened to learn some economics and the relationship between economics and finance. When I started learning these things I felt like my brain was fogging and my eyes were glazing over. But I soon learned that after you get the hang of it, it's not so hard. Kind of like riding a bicycle, hard at first, and then very easy. At any rate, it seems to me that if we desire to stop overtly inflicting harm upon each other, we either have to understand the rudiments of economics, or we have to abstain from participation in politics.

Love to all,

Bart



All hell broke loose in Europe this morning: European stocks plummeted. The euro plunged. Greek bond prices crashed again and gold rocketed higher.

Meanwhile, Greek Prime Minister Papandreou suddenly and unexpectedly cancelled his visit to the U.S. while en route! After receiving a telephone call from his finance minister on a stopover in London, Papandreou hurriedly returned to Greece.

Why? Nobody knows for sure — but today, International Monetary Fund (IMF) monitors will announce whether or not Greece is living up to the agreement it signed in order to receive bailouts — and the stakes could NOT be higher!

If IMF monitors are not pleased with Greece’s progress, next month’s 8-billion-euro bailout payment could be cancelled. And without that money, Greece will certainly default on its debt.

Plus, after today’s conference call with IMF regulators, Papandreou’s finance minister will announce plans to accelerate state asset sales and spending cuts.

Those new cuts include deep reductions in the pensions of Greek sailors and employees of the state telecommunication company OTE ... PLUS the immediate merger or abolition of 65 government agencies ... AND the freezing of state workers’ pensions through 2015.

Nobody expects Greek unions to take that news lying down. Widespread rioting, looting and the firebombing of banks and government buildings have followed similar announcements in the past!

And to make matters worse, German Chancellor Angela Merkel received a stern rebuke from voters over the weekend.

German voters are furious over Merkel’s handling of bailouts for Greece and other PIIGS nations. As a result, her party was roundly defeated in a Berlin state election. Her coalition ally lost all its seats.

Now, it seems, Merkel has two choices: She can continue trying to save Greece — by approving new bailouts — or she can try to save her own party and her own career by simply letting Greece default.

No wonder former IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn is warning that a Greek default is now inevitable!

“They can’t pay,” Strauss-Kahn said yesterday. “The efforts of European leaders have been too little, or too late, or often both too little and too late.”
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 06:13 pm:   

WHAT IS GAPAA ?

Judy and friends,

Judy thanks for asking. GAPAA is my acronym for "government and politics as attack". I had explained that in my first post but neglected to do so in my more recent ones.

I'll try to summarize the basic ideas that I'm trying to weave together in this thread. ACIM tells us that "… the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does." OrEd.Tx.9.15. The concept that it is wrong to attack the innocent, harmless, and helpless is not new; it has been around for thousands of years. Nevertheless, in spite of the fact that this idea did not originate with ACIM, we have to admit that this idea is deeply ingrained in ACIM. Getting out of attack is part of getting out of the ego. Getting out of the ego is an essential part of the path that ACIM sets forth. ACIM tells us many times that the ego tries to keep what it is doing hidden in a cloud of obscurity so that we don't understand it. We have a tendency to think of "attack" as something that is clear and obvious, but in today's world we can and do attack in ways that are obscure and hard to recognize. My overall point in this thread is that much of the obscure and hard to recognize attack that we do in the modern world is done by using government as an intermediary. That way a more or less unidentified group of millions of people conducts attack upon another more or less unidentified group of millions of people, and gets away with it by using government as an intermediary. As time goes on I'll try to illustrate that in today's world, including the USA and all of the Western countries, that a vast portion of the attack that we do is done through government, that a vast portion of what governments do is attack, and that we have no idea that this is what is actually happening in the world. So the ultimate take-away for an ACIM student is that unless we come to an understanding of how government action consists of attack, which policies and programs constitute attack, which candidates are for continuing the policies that constitute attack, and which candidates are for ending the policies that constitute attack, we will likely engage in attack when we vote and otherwise take part in the political process.

The famous economist John Maynard Keynes gave an example of this sort of dynamic when he said: "There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic laws on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one in a million is able to diagnose." Actually I don't know whether he said it or wrote it, but I've read it many times and it only took me about a second to find it on the web, so I'm confident that the quote is accurate.

The context of my earlier quote is relevant to the question of the proper and improper use of government, because it tells us that the ego will do exactly what I am saying we do through government, which is to assume roles that we should not assume:
"His work is not your function, and unless you accept this, you cannot learn what your function is. The confusion of functions is so typical of the ego that you should be quite familiar with it by now. The ego believes that all functions belong to it, even though it has no idea what they are. This is more than mere confusion. It is a particularly dangerous combination of grandiosity and confusion which makes it likely that the ego will attack anyone and anything for no reason at all. This is exactly what the ego does. It is totally unpredictable in its responses because it has no idea of what it perceives." OrEd.Tx.9.15

The statement "the ego believes that all functions belong to it" should immediately remind us of modern government, because a huge part of our society believes that all functions belong to government, and the enormous size and scope of modern government do in fact reflect the belief that "all functions belong to it". It shouldn't be too hard to connect the dots to see that the ego, believing that all functions belong to it and recognizing that the individual ego can't execute all functions, nudges us to vote for candidates who will move government in the direction of "assuming all functions", which ends up being the very thing that the ego always does: attack.

If we still had slavery in the USA I think it would be incumbent upon American ACIM students to take a stand against it. If we had religious persecution in the USA I think it would be incumbent upon American ACIM students to take a stand against it. In the same way, I think it is incumbent upon ACIM students to take a stand against the attack that is being done through government today, especially in cases where the fact that government policies are overt attack is clearly obvious. I think government debt is a good example of GAPAA. The dynamic that today's voters elect officials who take on more government debt for the benefit of today's voters, and tomorrow's taxpayers will have to pay for it, should be easily recognizable as attack and nothing but attack. For example, my children are not yet old enough to vote, they have not benefited from the debt that the federal government currently owes, nor will they benefit from it in the future. Other people who have lived up to now have benefited from it. However, my children will be required to bear part of the burden of that debt. It should be clear that any increase in government debt (at all levels, federal, state, and local) is purely attack upon the innocent, harmless, and helpless. I can't understand how anyone could argue that this is not clear and obvious. (If we were at war with a major power, such as was the case in World War II, then the issue of taking on debt would be different.) So I think that practical application of ACIM involves taking a stand on issues like this, and the prerequisite for taking a stand is recognizing GAPAA, "government and politics as attack", on a case-by-case basis.

Armando, I don't know whether you're still in the group. If you are and you're reading this, perhaps you would like to add some comments here, since you live under a government that is a very clear example of GAPAA.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Judy Junghans (Judy)
Username: Judy

Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 09:24 pm:   

Dear All, I have been on vacation and have not had the opportunity to follow the thread. But in the future, when using abreviations, could you please spell it out the first time. I have no idea what GAPAA means.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 06:33 pm:   

A VERY BRIEF EXAMPLE OF GAPAA

Friends,

The following is a quote from Robert Prechter, a famous and very successful financial market analyst I've been following since 1984. His work has expanded from pure market analysis to analysis of how society as a whole functions.

"The President want to create jobs. He plans to do it by spending another half trillions dollars. The thinking here is fallacious. You can't create jobs with government money, because it's all extorted from people who work, thus destroying jobs. The way to have more jobs is to remove the impediments to their creation." (Elliott Wave Theorist, September 16, 2011, page 9)

I don't exactly agree with everything that he's saying but I think he's more or less on track. This is a good example of the dynamic that I mentioned before, "government and politics as attack". The stated intention sounds good – the USA needs more jobs and government's stated intention is to create jobs. Unfortunately, the actual outcome is the opposite – government actually destroys jobs and wealth in it's effort to make jobs. Even if government does succeed in making some jobs, the harm that is done in efforts like this is always more than the good that is done. From an ACIM perspective, we might have to say that it is not actually possible for any good to be done by the sort of programs that the President is proposing, because ACIM says that salvation "must be freely given and received" (OrEd.WkBk.343.2), and the creation of these jobs is done by the force of the police power of the government. In addition, any jobs that are created in this manner can only be done overt attack, by pitting one segment of society in conflict against another, and ACIM is opposed to attack and to deliberately creating conflict.

I've been watching the economic, financial, and social crises that we now have unfold in slow motion since the very early 1980s, and at every step of the way government has been the central causative factor. I'm not going to take time to explain that right now, it could take a book to explain it all. I'm not the only one who sees and understands it, there are many who see it clearly. As I said earlier, I read dozens of examples of GAPAA every day. The idea of the government creating jobs is nothing but pure attack, thus "government and politics as attack". The problem is that the majority of us aren't conscious of what we're doing, we aren't conscious of how events connect to each other. But being not conscious of the process is characteristic of the manner in which the ego attacks. The following are three quotes, one from Star Trek and two from ACIM, that I'll be posting over and over.

"I was so far removed from the consequences of what I was doing that it was easy to pretend I wasn't hurting anyone."
Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Season Five, "A Simple Investigation"

"All sacrifice entails the loss of your ability to see relationships among events. And looked at separately, they have no meaning."
OrEd.Tx.30..87

"To the ego there appears to be no connection..."
OrEd.Tx.7.24

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 02:52 pm:   

Dear Bart,

Great essay. Much food for thought. Thanks so much!

Because we spoke about it before, I need to
let you know that, historically, Adolf Hitler has not been
installed into power by election of or by the people of Germany.

And the 2 parliament elections that could have prevented him
and his party to co-shape one of the most unfortunate
times of human history, had failed.

Having grown up as what they call a "2nd generation war
victim" in what was named Western Germany
after WWII, and from many many family members
and my inquiries into this history which literally
tormented my adolescent mind,
I do recall that if it had been the people's
vote, no such thing as "national socialism"
would have ever been wanted, wished for or
supported by the people, for the people and of
the people.

I am not saying this as a defense, but because I
know and appreciate your preference and
love for factually correct information.

To learn about how Adolf Hitler came into power,
maybe the wiki page offers some more detailed info.

Now, I'll enjoy following your train of thought,
and see what resonates with me. I made a conscious
decision to develop my artistic talents to make
a positive difference in the world when I was 15 yrs old.

And so, as Jesus instructs, there is a special role
for each of us in the Atonement. When Ankie and I think of politics, we usually go into prayer mode
and ask the Highest Blessings upon those who take on
huge responsibilities and usually and most
obvioulsy face temptations of enormous proportions,
because mankind has for so long accepted a
"divide and conquer" modus operandus and
must yet develop divine ethics before
industrial, religious and political powers
are balanced enough to be non-destructive and
truly benevolent - which means, not in service
of egos but in service of Atonement. But this is
strictly IMHO, and I might be wrong about that.

Many thanks again,
love, maz
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 02:04 pm:   

ACIM AND VOTING

Friends,

Within the ACIM community I have always noticed a distinct lack of discussion with regards to the relationship between this spiritual path and politics. I think part of the reason that we aren't focusing any attention on the relationship between our spiritual path and politics is because we're still trying to understand what the book says. I think part of the reason is also because the ACIM community is dominated by the MO perspective that essentially says that ACIM is opposed to practical application of any sort that involves an objectively identifiable problem or an objectively identifiable solution. This goes hand in hand with the misunderstanding of "judgment" in ACIM, because in order to vote we have to judge which candidate to vote for. We can extend this to the observation that in order to do any practical application that involves any objectively identifiable problem or any objectively identifiable solution, we have to judge. As I tried to say earlier, the idea that ACIM tells us to never judge is part and parcel of the insanely destructive MO interpretation of ACIM. I am certain that at some point the ACIM community as a whole will realize that how we engage in politics is utterly inseparable from our spiritual path. The rest of this missive explains why I think this.

Government consists almost entirely of two functions. First, the use of force to prevent people from doing what they want to do. For example, governments use the police power that is unique to government to prevent murder, rape, burglary, certain types of environmental pollution, production of foods with ingredients that the government considers to be hazardous, and operation of workplaces with conditions that the government considers to be unacceptable. These are all things that some people would do, but government prevents them from doing it, using the power of force that is unique to government. As another example, governments use military power to prevent foreign governments from conquering nations that they would like to conquer. In the 1930s and 1940s the governments of Japan, Germany, and Italy wanted to conquer other nations. The governments of the Allies prevented them from doing so in some cases and stopped them from doing so in the cases where they had done so, using the military power that is unique to government. In these cases government use of force to prevent people from doing what they want to do seems proper. But in many cases government use of force to prevent people from doing what they want to do is attack. For example, the governments of Cuba and North Korea use force to prevent their people from engaging in the free economic transactions that they would engage in if government did not prevent it. The result is that the Cubans are impoverished and the North Koreans are not only impoverished but starving, whereas the populations of both nations could easily be prosperous if their governments did not use force to prevent them from being prosperous. In many of the Islamic and Communist nations, and to some extent also in India, governments use force to prevent people from adopting and practicing the religion or spiritual path of their choice. In the USA, the governments use force (minimum wage laws) to prevent people from engaging in working arrangements that would heal many of the problems that exist in our society and in our individual lives. In Nazi Germany government used force to prevent millions of people from continuing to live. In all of the examples above the common thread is that government activity consists of the use of force to prevent people from doing what they desire to do. The relevant distinction is that there are two obvious categories here – proper use of government and misuse of government.

The other function of government, which covers almost everything else that governments do, is the use of force to make people do what they do not want to do. For example, governments use the police power that is unique to government to make people pay taxes so that roads can be built, children can be educated, police departments can be maintained, and militaries can be maintained. The fact that many taxpayers would not do so is proven by the observations that many people cheat on their taxes in order to pay less or pay nothing at all. Governments use police power to make parents send their children to school up to a certain age. The fact that many parents would not do this unless government forced them to is proven by the observation that before compulsory schooling laws, many parents made their children start working to earn income for the family at very young ages, like maybe 9 or 10 years old. As with the first examples in the paragraph above, in these examples government use of force to make people do what they do not want to do seems proper. But once again, we can also see many cases where governments use of force to make people do what they do not want to do is attack. In the 1930s and 1940s the governments of Germany, Italy, and Japan made millions of people die when they did not want to. During the Viet Nam war the Johnson administration used force to draft young men and send them off to fight in a war which that administration had no intention of winning. In the USA today, government uses force to make me pay Social Security when I am convinced that Social Security is inherently evil, inherently harmful, and always inherently attack, no matter how it is structured. I'm sure with a little thought we could come up with other cases in which governments use force to make people do what they would rather not do. All of the examples would fall into two categories, seemingly proper and seemingly improper. The common thread of all of them is the use of force by power that is unique to government.

Having now seen that almost all government activity falls into two categories, and the common link between those two categories is the use of force, we can ask ourselves how this relates to our spiritual path. Because almost all government activity consists of use of force, almost all government activity consists of people relating with each other. The essence of the spiritual path that ACIM sets forth is that it is based on our relationships with each other. In particular, ACIM tells us to be harmless to each other. If government consists of forcing people to do what they might not want to do and using force to prevent people from doing what they might want to do, then voting is essentially engaging the police and military powers of government to 1) use force to make our brothers and sisters do what they might not want to do and 2) use force to prevent them from doing what they might want to do. We could say that since ACIM asks us to be harmless, the thing to do is to stand aside and never vote, and thereby to never use force on our fellow man, especially once we observe that so much of what governments do is overtly harmful. I have heard that the Jehovah's Witnesses refrain from voting based on religious principles. I don't think this is the right solution for ACIM students. ACIM asks us to be engaged with each other, to relate to each other, and to help each other. Refraining from voting is withdrawing into isolation. We can't prevent things from getting worse, or help things to get better, or engage with each other by refraining and withdrawing. All of the people who refrained from voting in the election in which Hitler was elected are people who could have voted for the other candidate and thereby helped to prevent the tragedy that the Nazis brought forth.

The only solution that I can think of for ACIM students is to engage in voting, but to understand that every time we vote we are engaging the police and military powers of government to use force upon our brothers and sisters. That being the case, we need to understand both the issues and the candidates enough to vote in the most harmless possible manner. Looking at it this way, I realize that my involvement in politics is at the very core of practical application of ACIM. As an ACIM student I can't stand aside and do nothing when I could lend a helping hand to prevent or lessen suffering (i.e., I could vote). As an ACIM student I have to avoid harming other people (i.e., I have to be careful how I vote).

I think that ACIM tells us that all of the problems that we have in the world are the result of the fact that we are all partly insane. If all of the problems that we have in the world are the result of this one cause, then all of the problems that are related to government are the result of the fact that we are all partly insane. I believe that ACIM provides us with the best available path out of insanity and into sanity. I think we can play a very constructive and very important role. I think we can help to heal the world if we can learn to make our engagement in politics a reflection of our spiritual path.

Love,

Bart

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maz Weber-Caspers (Maz)
Username: Maz

Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 09:32 am:   

Mayer Amschel Rothschild is quoted to have said:

“Give me control over a nation’s currency and I don’t care who makes the laws.”


Personally, I tend to think that the constitution of the United States of America is among, if not the most perfect mankind has ever seen. It also seems that the implementation of the FRB in the beginning of the 20th Century has not exactly been very helpful in the application of it "of the people, by the people, for the people".

Turning to Jesus, he regularly reminds me of this:

3531. Who would be willing to be turned away from all the roadways of the world, unless he understood their real futility? Is it not needful that he should begin with this, to seek another way instead? For while he sees a choice where there is none, what power of decision can he use? The great release of power must begin with learning where it really has a use. And what decision has power, if it be applied in situations without choice? The learning that the world can offer but one choice, no matter what its form may be, is the beginning of acceptance that there is a REAL alternative instead. To fight against this step is to defeat your purpose here. You did not come to learn to find a road the world does not contain.

3532. The search for different pathways in the world is but the search for different forms of truth. And this would KEEP the truth from being reached. Think not that happiness is ever found by following a road AWAY from it. (This makes no sense, and CANNOT be the way. To you who seem to find this course to be too difficult to learn, let me repeat that, to achieve a goal, you must proceed in its direction, not away from it.) And every road that goes the other way will not advance the purpose to be found. If THIS be difficult to understand, then IS this course impossible to learn. But only then. For otherwise, it is a simple teaching in the obvious."

~ ur-typescript ACIM

Happy trails,

maz

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert Lester (Robert_l)
Username: Robert_l

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 08:49 am:   

Greeting To All:

Rev. Tony, I so much agree that it was fear that was the force behind the stock market's roller coaster ride of the past week. Just one comment about your post. Correct me if you have more information about this: The Federal Reserve Bank is not a part of the Federal Government but a privately owned corporation. It is true that the officers of the FRB are selected by the President of the USA but the Government does not own the FRB. Therefore we are not borrowing our OWN money. There are some interesting stories about who are the forces behind the FRB and where does their money come from, but they are PRIVATE and not controlled by the government, of this or any other country because they lend money to governments around the world.

With Peace Profound:
Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Tony Ponticello (Admin)
Username: Admin

Registered: 01-1998
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2011 - 08:39 pm:   

Hello
ACIM
Friends


BART: Thanks for starting the new thread. I have been very interested in politics and government for many, many years. I see it as part of my job as a minister to stay up to date in my observations of our society and culture.

After I read the posts here last week I decided to give a sermon about the "special hate relationship" that so many have with the government. It's an institution that many of us love to hate!

Now that we are more than a week away from the raising of the debt ceiling debate we can have a moment to pause and reflect. In spite of some wild fluctuations in the financial markets early in the week -- things remained relatively calm by the end of the week with the Dow recovering much of its early week loses. I found it interesting, although Standard and Poor had downgraded the U.S.A. credit rating, in the early part of the week on financial insecurities people fled from the insecure stock market and ran to the "security" of U.S.A. Treasury bills and other U.S.A. debt instruments.

The stock market is interesting to me because it is a good reflection of our society's level of fear and retraction. Early in the week our society was scared. Later in the week the fear had abated.

At my sermon last Sunday I looked up some statistics about the U.S.A. debt.

Total U.S.A. Debt: $14.6 trillion (and growing daily). That's $14,600,000,000,000.

Since it is impossible for us to wrap our minds around such a figure let's break it down. U.S.A. population is currently about 311,000,000 people (all ages). That means that each U.S.A. citizen owes $47,000. An "average" family of five would owe $235,000. Can you imagine the U.S.A. government knocking on the average family door and saying that it had decided to pay up the debt so it was there to collect the family's $235,000 share?

What I did NOT know was that the lion's share of the U.S.A. debt was not owned by China (a common misperception, China owns only $900 billion of the U.S.A. debt.) It was not owned by Japan (Japan owns only $877 billion of the U.S.A debt). The largest owner of the U.S.A. debt -- this entity owns 37% of the total U.S.A. debt -- is the Federal Reserve Bank. In other words, the U.S.A. owns it's own debt. How can this be?

The logic has to be something like this. The U.S.A. needs some money. It's broke. So the U.S.A. issues "attractive" bonds for a nice interest return. The bonds are rated highly as "safe" investments so they get bought easily. The U.S.A. borrows money. Now, the U.S.A. temporarily has a little extra cash, since it borrowed money. However, it doesn't just want to hold the cash passively. The U.S.A. want to invest this extra money so that it can make some money on this temporary cash. What's the best, safest investment around for this cash? Why it's the very bonds that it just issued. So the U.S.A. buys it's own bonds because they're the best investment around. Now the U.S.A. has a little extra cash because it just sold some more bonds (to itself). So it buys some more bonds -- from itself. Hey, these bonds pay a pretty good interest! So the U.S.A. has again, some temporary extra cash from all this great interest that it is paying to itself. What to do with it? We'll that last investment paid off pretty well. So the U.S.A. buys some more bonds -- from itself! Gee -- but with all this interest the U.S.A. has to pay, sometimes the coffers get a little low. No problem, the U.S.A. will just sell some more bonds -- TO ITSELF!

This is NUTS! This is the definition of a "Ponzi" scheme isn't it? This house of cards has got to fall down someday. We're never going to pay back $47,000 per person (and growing). And since we want some extra cash we just buy our own bonds because the return on investment is so good! We pay ourselves good interest!

As I was contemplating this from an A Course In Miracles perspective this quotation kept coming to mind.

"This is an insane world, and do not underestimate the actual extent of its insanity." (Tx.Or.Ed.13.50)


Since we own so much of our own debt (it's actually much higher than 37% because there is a lot of debt that is indirectly owned) can't we just write a lot of it off? Wouldn't it just be a wash? I'm sure there must be a group of really bright C.P.A.'s that could figure out how to do this on the cosmic national ledger.

Love
Rev. Tony
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 02:34 pm:   

Christine,

Are you mimicking me????...lolololol!

Thank you for your wonderful post this morning. I enjoy reading you soooo much! You bring light into my experience.

Love,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 02:19 pm:   

ooops....

I mistyped this qupote..."The salvation described by the Course is UNIQUE in the way it
COMBINES TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY for our OWN salvation with the TOTAL
dependence on Body."

It is God. Not body.
christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 10:56 am:   

Maria,

Thank you for sharing such a significant, important and profound example of the foundation principles of ACIM. "There is a reason for everything, forgiveness is the key to my healing."

You state in your share...."Even for the experiences I went through, I did not understand this then, but now that I understand better, I am certain and I agree that by healing my past I have a better NOW, and I do not think about the future much, I live a day a time. I am not sure what tomorrow will bring, but I now what IS happening NOW. I am focused in the NOW, and I am sending light to all, even to my brothers and sisters running Washington DC. lol! "

In my own personal life I have come to this belief and often endorse and encourage others to perceive it as EGO healing. I speak of it in a little different terms but imagine it is as you offer to me and all that dwell within an ego.

It goes like this...."There IS no healing in the past. HOWEVER, there is tremendous power in ACCEPTANCE and UNDERSTANDING the forms in which the past IS INFORMING the present."

Within the context of this new thread by our Brother Bart.....I imagine those POLITICIANS who act and react as if they are sleeping, projecting their SPECIAL dreams of death & destruction,....seeming not to have the desire to remember their past that may be informing THEIR present is key to NOT ACCEPTING and UNDERSTANDING how they are also NOT showing up as MIRACLE WORKERS.

Todays lesson 217, which is still part of a review is applicable and absolute in its synchronicity in my mind/MIND.

Lesson 217
Central theme: "I am not a body. I AM FREE. For I am still as God created me."
Review of : "It can BE but my/MY gratitude I earn."
Maria, your remembrance of your past as your willingness of acceptance and understanding that calling if forth for examination of it's continued presence as self is a demonstration of healing the EGO.

In the commentary by A. Watson he writes of Lesson 197..."It can BE but my gratitude I earn."

"The salvation described by the Course is UNIQUE in the way it COMBINES TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY for our OWN salvation with the TOTAL dependence on Body."

"Give thanks to every part of you that you have taught how to remember you" (T-13.VII.17:8).

These words appear to be the essence of this lesson, for me. They offer me comfort within the context of this thread...."The Course teaches that we all ARE ready to awake; the truth LIVES untarnished in our RIGHT MIND. And it is THIS right MIND, this SELF that is the ONLY part of us that has reality in truth, which is teaching us AND calling us home.'

This is the power of this lesson for me in juxtaposition with the notion this thread poses for me as citizen of the government of the USA trusting my Brothers and Sisters-the POLITICIANS acting as the representatives of God's WILL in Washington for those of us who perceive them as Miracle Workers.....as ONE.

"The RIGHT MIND IS the home of the Holy Spirit. He IS past of US as WELL as PART of God!!! His Voice IS the voice of God, YET...it is ALSO the VOICE of my SELF!!!!

Let me be grateful to my SELF today. Let me recognize that I am deserving of my OWNn gratitude...Let me UNDERSTAND that WHEN I have learned FULLY to BE completely grateful to my SELF for what I am, I will have COMPLETED the journey, and WILL have LEARNED at the SAME time, to be FULLY appreciative and grateful to God for the gift given me: my SELF!!!!!"

Last night in class we were reading the sections in the Teacher's Manual about TRUST & HONESTY.....this thread calls forth the ideas in that section as pertinent to the POLITICIANS as MIracle Workers...Teachers of God. Acceptance and Understanding the power and simplicity and call to practice, practice, practice....

"The RIGHT MIND IS the home of the Holy Spirit. He IS past of US as WELL as PART of God!!! His Voice IS the voice of God, YET...it is ALSO the VOICE of my SELF!!!!

The section titled TRUST conveys 6 stages leading to TRUST as the first mastery and interestingly the following section HONESTY says...ALL other TRAITS of God's teachers REST on TRUST. Quite synchronistic to this self's MIND...pertaining to my perceptions of Government and the POLITICIANS mastery of LOVE.

The stages of mastery of TRUST are
1. A period of undoing.
2. A period of sorting-out.
3. A period of relinquishment.
4. A period of settling down.
5. A period of unsettling.
6. A period of achievement.

Maria, and Bart thank you for the inspiration to practice remembering/reminiscing, study and shifting of perception for healing of my self and SELF. There is such power in acknowledging the projections of the POLITICIANS as simple FORM. This time I have spent in writing reminds me of the import of Maria's words...

"Even for (ALL) the experiences I went through, I did not understand this then, but now that I understand better, I am certain and I agree that by healing my past I have a better NOW, (!!!!!) and I do not think about the future much, I live a day a time. I am not sure what tomorrow will bring, but I know what IS happening NOW. I am focused in the NOW, and I am sending light to all,."

Accepting and Understanding how those past experiences may still be informing NOW give me comfort to TRUST I will master the stages. I KNOW I project the LIGHT of HONESTY in GRATITUDE I have mastered as a SPIRIT having a human experience....know to me now as a manifestation of "Let me be grateful to my SELF today. Let me recognize that I am deserving of my OWNn gratitude...Let me UNDERSTAND that WHEN I have learned FULLY to BE completely grateful to my SELF for what I am, I will have COMPLETED the journey, and WILL have LEARNED at the SAME time, to be FULLY appreciative and grateful to God for the gift given me: my SELF!!!!!"

This I will offer this day to my Brothers and Sisters...the POLITICIANS that ...""The Course teaches that we all ARE ready to awake; the truth LIVES untarnished in our RIGHT MIND. And it is THIS right MIND, this SELF that is the ONLY part of us that has reality in truth, which is teaching us AND calling us home."

It appears they WILL continue to sleep and as they project the EGO ILLUSIONS in behaviors which are demonstrations of power and not Love. Their behaviors smack of projecting death to the PEOPLE in favor of life for their little selves. SEPARATION without home of GOING HOME as ONE!!!

May all as ONE.....project mastery of TRUST.....as this simple guidance ""The RIGHT MIND IS the home of the Holy Spirit. He IS past of US as WELL as PART of God!!! His Voice IS the voice of God, YET...it is ALSO the VOICE of my SELF!!!!"......leading to those POLITICIANS to ALL OTHER traits of God's teachers!!!!

Namaste.....
Christine

PS....Nothing happens by chance. Yesterday I had a Holy Instant with a Brother who, in his own words, began to discuss the idea of this thread. While he was not speaking the language of ACIM as we know it. HE was SPEAKING the language of Holy Spirit as his SELF!!! It was truly a Miracle of LIGHT and LOVE brought into the room I call my office!!!! LOL. Maria...I pose the Light Bart brought was perhaps for another healing opportunity of the ego..."I went back in time, and realized that I was angry at the teacher who slapped my face, and would make me kneel on tiny pebbles when other children were allowed to play." I love such profound examples of learning to LOVE the ego!!!! Kudo's Sister Worker!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 09:16 am:   

Good Morning Everyone,

Bart,

Thank you for asking me the question about the ego and my native country. I went back in time, and realized that I was angry at the teacher who slapped my face, and would make me kneel on tiny pebbles when other children were allowed to play. From the age of seven to the age of twelve this treatment went on, and on, on a daily basis because I would not wear the white and blue Young Pioneer Banner around my neck. Funny,I do not recall missing a day of school. I was not afraid of her. There is a reason for everything, forgiveness is the key to my healing. I understand the teacher, she wanted me to think like her. I was a very defiant child and very smart compared to the rest of the student in her class. I was not afraid, and I would voice my opinion, which created panic to the teacher's ego. I am grateful for all. Even for the experiences I went through, I did not understand this then, but now that I understand better, I am certain and I agree that by healing my past I have a better NOW, and I do not think about the future much, I live a day a time. I am not sure what tomorrow will bring, but I now what IS happening NOW. I am focused in the NOW, and I am sending light to all, even to my brothers and sisters running Washington DC. lol!

Thank you for bringing light to a dark area in my mind.

Have a ONEderful Day,

Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 04:39 pm:   

Hello Everyone,

After reading my previous post again, I realized I wrote:"In my innocent mind I thought being either of these things was a waste of my time and a population control tactic." I did not mean to control the birthrate by any means, I simply meant to control the public as whole. Thank you!

:-),
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maria Rodriguez (Maria)
Username: Maria

Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 12:37 pm:   

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Bart, you wrote: "Maria, since you grew up under a very different government, perhaps you would like to weigh in on the concept of GAPAA. Do you feel that the government of your native country has been a medium that the ego uses to attack the people there?"

The answer to your question is definitely "YES". In Cuba children would start school at the age of seven. As a child I could not understand why the adults would be so submissive when it came to their government and religious believes. This thought process got me in trouble all the time by my teachers.

It appeared to me then, that thinking different could represent a problem for me,lol! At the age of seven I refused to wear the Young Pioneer Banner around my neck, and would NOT allowed my younger siblings to wear it either, because that was a for sure symbol that I was in agreement with a dictatorship. So my teachers would apply corporal punishment on me. Some of them specially one who would slapped me across my face, and threatened me in a very authoritative manner in front of the class, using me as an example of what could happen to them if they thought like me, with the intention to change my mind, but, I did not care. I was not afraid. I knew there was a better way. My inner guide was disgusted by their doctrine. I never believed in taking from the wealthy to give to the poor. That is the Ego's biggest trap when it comes to politics. The poor with the need and desire to have more, did not get the picture. It was beyond my comprehension to see that most poor people did not go to school to better themselves, but, it was OK to go with the misleading idea that those who did go to school, and made their own fortune by hard labor had to share it with them by law.

At the age of seven I knew in my heart that I was NOT communist or Catholic. Therefore I changed my religion, even though I was baptized by the Catholic Church three months after my physical birth. In my innocent mind I thought being either of these things was a waste of my time and a population control tactic. Sure enough, the promise to make everyone equal, created a very poor Cuba, because the government took over everything, and now school was mandatory, for both, the wealthy and the poor. Only that at this point everyone was poor...lol! Most definitely an ego's tactic to attack the people there. For the longest time I have been grateful for Fidel Castro, because Fulgencio Batista had a group of men going around killing innocent farmers, and then charging them with an anti-revolutionary movement. My father and all his brothers were next on the list.

In my opinion the Ego has been having a field day with the Cuban people ever since Cuba was discovered by Christopher Columbus in October 28, 1492.

Peace to All,
Maria
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Christine Yoffe (Christine)
Username: Christine

Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 11:31 am:   

Hi Bart,

Interesting that you are sharing your worldly thoughts about such a worldly construct.

The "government" ARE your Brothers and Sisters! I love the way you have posed the associations of ACIM thinking with the "behaviors" of your Brothers & Sisters who are the "political" representatives ie:Ego's of government.

I am not a political/government watcher for many varied reasons. I have spent the greatest majority of my adult life accepting that "government" is not politics. Government as a concept is neutral, in ACIM I would say it equates to God's WILL or LOVE.

When "politics" is inserted then there appears EGO in all it's varied forms. Perhaps it is this misperception that leads to the notion of "separation of church and state?" Church being Government, peace, joy, happy dreams and LOVE. State representing the EGO wills, the minds seeking correction for the attack relationships?

You wrote....
"Second, I realized that government consists largely of forcing other people to do what they would rather not do and preventing people from doing what they would like to do. As with my first realization, this may not be immediately obvious, but if you think about it for a while and read the newspapers with this though in mind, before long you will see that the great majority of what government does falls into one of these two categories. So as an ACIM student who is supposed to be harmless, if my votes are going to elect people who are going to wield coercive power, then I need to think carefully about that. For example, would I vote for a candidate for mayor who would maintain a police force that prevents people from committing murder and rape? Yep, I’m OK with that. On the other hand, would I vote for a candidate who is going to run up debt for the benefit of the current generation that my children and grand-children will be coerced to pay for? What would be an ACIM reference for that? How about "let me not bind your Son with laws I made", or "in my defenselessness my safety lies", or "what limits can I lay upon God’s Son"? So as an ACIM student I’m not OK with running up debt for the pleasure of a current generation that creates an enforced burden upon future generations. I can only respond to the various issues as a voter and as an ACIM student if I understand the issues. But the conclusion that is inescapable to me is that how I vote, and what I support by my words and donations, is an integral part of my spiritual path."

This resonates most clearly to my MIND Bart. My observation of government related to politics and associated with me as ME IS contradiction. Government is the Constitution....written for all to read, study and practice exactly as ACIM.

Politics is egoic humans who perceive their right is to impose their ego wills upon others. We have had an opportunity to observe what you describe so poignantly in a country founded on far more spiritual constructs, set forth in the Constitution, than egoic or political ideology as demonstrated in the form of "children playing with toys, making up the rules as they go along, not understanding the social graces needed to act as representatives for THEIR Brothers and Sisters under the guidance of "by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE!!!!"

Somewhere along the way "POLITICS" became an acceptable form of attack. Those practicing politics ARE no longer dreamers with the will to seek Holy Instants nor do they appear to have any expressed hope of REALITY for those of NOW or the FUTURE.

They ARE purveyors of HELLISH projections! How truly unfortunate for all Spirits having human experiences Bart that we are witnessing POLITICS and NOT government that fails those that are trusting in Government as RELATED to our Spiritual paths and practice.

I envision a MIRACLE will be upon the politicians when they accept and understand THEN practice what the Constitution set forth as a balance of spirit and governance. Then may we all have experiences of Happy Dreams & Holy Instants.

WHEN.....the situation as a WHOLE is truly considered....ie: when there is crisis in a relationship. EVERYONE must consider the WHOLE or SEPARATION will create death. Literally and figuratively. To my MIND....this current debacle has nothing at all to do with "running up debt" that is what, your Brothers & Sisters, " HUMAN POLITICIANS" DO or don't do.

When there is CORRECTION of PERCEPTION the focus will be upon " forcing other people to do what they would rather not do and preventing people from doing what they would like to do." Which to my MIND CREATES the possibility for a MIRACLE! In this we are guided to focus upon the RELATIONSHIP, one party or the other may for a moment seek guidance for the RELATIONSHIP without fear. The preservation of NOW is the only hope for the future no matter how you slice it. Concern for the future is a fruitless tree.....perhaps one with an apple????

Bart, thank you for sparking some inspiration within me. This guidance has given me a few minutes of seeking guidance for my own confused and contradictory images of POLITICS in juxtaposition with GOVERNMENT.

I envision a MIRACLE in which all of the politicians as ONE....will as CREATIONS of GOD have a HOLY INSTANT of revelation. And as ONE will CREATE a HAPPY DREAM in which the neutral balance LOVE offers and do the right thing for RIGHT NOW with RIGHT MINDS.

I have heard my Brothers and Sisters around me say, and I do believe, the solution is stop the separation idea that POLITICIAN's have the right to impose their wills upon government. Stop attacking each other thinking that they play a game that is only about them.

WHEN....cuts and taxes are equal. WHEN the "sides" of the aisle no longer perceive an aisle THEN will there be a MIRACLE and a return to the ideology of GOVERNMENT "of the PEOPLE and BY the PEOPLE." Those PEOPLE are asleep and dreaming of hell, they have forgotten that they are the human representatives of ALL the PEOPLE as ONE!

I believe that as MIRACLE workers WE are being called to divert our own thoughts & behaviors from the ego projections of the POLITICIANS for the healing of the WORLD. We can do so as ONE when we remember that Government is NOT ego and cannot attack. The message I am guided to embrace from your share Bart is to practice, practice, practice what ACIM is simply and directly presenting in the "curriculum" .......beware of darkness!

Tune-in to the contradictions the EGO places in the vision of ONE! Recognize SEPARATION in all it's varied forms as a healing opportunity for one's mind and THE MINDS of this WORLD!!!! What is truly the meaning of "debt?" as related to government/politics/spirit???? I observe in the words of many of the politicians a profound spiritual debt in they ideology. What is the MEANING of debt in a world where money has become the currency of humanity? A world in which we have humans homeless, hungry, in need of basic medical care and education denied because POLITICIANS can hold their EGO's in such high regard? This is not about debt....All people understand the difference between financial debt and pure EGOIC behaviors which appear as attack for selfish purpose under the misperception that it is about NOW or the FUTURE.

ACIM is strictly guiding us as ONE to remember there is no past and we know nothing of the future. Feed, clothe, house, teach all as ONE FIRST.....project the WILL of GOD as HOLY CHILDREN. Stop acting like petulant children playing as toddlers for the good of ALL as ONE. THEN there will be no need to spend one's precious time obsessing upon anything Bart! What a simple yet novel IDEA eh????

DEEP, DEEP, DEEP....Bart!
In love,
Christine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bart Bacon (Bart)
Username: Bart

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 04:57 am:   

ACIM, GOVERNMENT, AND POLITICS

FRIENDS,

For all of my life I’ve been fascinated by government and politics. Early in the 1990s my interest in domestic politics increased significantly as the two major parties in the US, which had for years been similar in many ways, began to polarize into more clearly defined opposing positions on many issues. At about the same time, I increased the consistency and amount of my reading on current events. For about 20 years I’ve probably been reading six to ten hours a week on topics that are either purely about politics and government, or very closely related to issues that involve politics and government. As I got deeper and deeper into my spiritual path, my obsessive desire to understand government and politics started to bother me. I often thought that as a spiritual seeker I shouldn’t be so obsessed with these issues and that I should spend that study time on purely spiritual pursuits instead. But I never reduced the pace of my reading and study.

During the run-up to the 2008 election I had an epiphany. I realized that my role as a voting citizen in a democracy is actually an inseparable part of my spiritual path. There were two realizations that led me to this conclusion. Once I came to the conclusion that my role as voter is an integral part of my spiritual path, I was at peace with the amount of time that I was devoting to studying these issues. The two realization that led me to decide that my role as a voter is an integral part of my spiritual path are the following:

My first realization was that government is a medium, an intermediary, that we use to conduct attack upon ourselves and upon our fellow man. The path set forth by ACIM can be summed up in many different ways. They are all valid ways of saying the same thing. For example, we could summarize the path set forth by ACIM as 1) "getting out of our ego and into our right mind", or 2) "listening only to the voice of the Holy Spirit", or 3) "forgiveness", or 4) "making our will the same as God’s will". Another way to summarize the path set for by ACIM is "getting out of attack". Once I realized that government is a medium that we use to attack both ourselves and our fellow man, then I realized that as a voting citizen of a democracy I can’t get out of attack unless I understand something about government, issues, policies, and politics.

Second, I realized that government consists largely of forcing other people to do what they would rather not do and preventing people from doing what they would like to do. As with my first realization, this may not be immediately obvious, but if you think about it for a while and read the newspapers with this though in mind, before long you will see that the great majority of what government does falls into one of these two categories. So as an ACIM student who is supposed to be harmless, if my votes are going to elect people who are going to wield coercive power, then I need to think carefully about that. For example, would I vote for a candidate for mayor who would maintain a police force that prevents people from committing murder and rape? Yep, I’m OK with that. On the other hand, would I vote for a candidate who is going to run up debt for the benefit of the current generation that my children and grand-children will be coerced to pay for? What would be an ACIM reference for that? How about "let me not bind your Son with laws I made", or "in my defenselessness my safety lies", or "what limits can I lay upon God’s Son"? So as an ACIM student I’m not OK with running up debt for the pleasure of a current generation that creates an enforced burden upon future generations. I can only respond to the various issues as a voter and as an ACIM student if I understand the issues. But the conclusion that is inescapable to me is that how I vote, and what I support by my words and donations, is an integral part of my spiritual path.

I see literally dozens of examples of what I call "GAPAA", "government and politics as attack", every day. Perhaps I’ll start posting some. The overall idea is something like this. In ancient days, if you wanted to hurt someone, to a large extent you had to do something that was visible. You had to stab him with a knife, or steal his goat, or kidnap his wife. But in the modern world, which is so much more complex, we can hurt each other using complex means, in which the government is the intermediary, which are not easily identified as attack by many people. We often don’t even realize what we’re doing, because the attack is conducted by a vast group of voters that can’t be exactly identified upon another vast group of people that can’t be exactly identified, using government as the intermediary. Sometimes I think that the overwhelming majority of attack which occurs in today’s world is either done by government or facilitated by government. I’ll try to give examples of this in the future.

I guess that’s enough to start the thread. I’ll post more later.

Maria, since you grew up under a very different government, perhaps you would like to weigh in on the concept of GAPAA. Do you feel that the government of your native country has been a medium that the ego uses to attack the people there?

Love to all,

Bart

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Action: